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Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

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  • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

    Good stuff. My opinion...

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    I think I understand what you are saying, but my (rudimentary) understanding of Jesus' teachings is that he stressed not behavior, but intent -- specifically belief. If you're doing all the right things for the wrong reason, you're doing it wrong. If you are righteous -- you have invited the spirit within you -- but you continually fall short of the standard of behavior, you are still right with the Lord.
    What you say is mostly valid. Jesus set the priorities with the most important commandments 1) belief in God 2) respect others (golden rule). Now carrying that forward...

    Jesus is God because of who He is. If we were asked to believe in a meaningless lightpost God, the Bible could be a lot shorter. To get to meaning, the Bible is still arguably the best teaching tool in history and relies on a total mastery of storied lessons, analogies and parables. Having said that, the #1 issue with the Bible is that its PHD level stuff...and the primary take aways are frequently misunderstood and can be easily co-opted for personal gain. So...the way to guarantee real meaning of it is to assume its pretty much a parable in its entirety. In the end, John finally gets to the point of the ultimate parable - God is love. This position is validated by Jesus' entire ministry.

    So...why would Jesus call out both belief in God (love) and the golden rule (respect)? There's no better way to make love and respect 'sacred'. The stakes are raised. Can you seriously love your enemy if love is just a good idea? Not likely. How does the love concept make it through millennia? Past the extreme human power/selfishness of the dark ages? If it becomes the basis of your belief system...truly amazing things are possible - universities, hospitals, valuing individuals and addressing tragedies such as child labor, human trafficking.

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    My upbringing via the Whore of Babylon stresses: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." / The Protestants, those weirdos who actually read the Bible, seem to really like to stress: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves / It is the gift of God."
    Its a parable. God is love.
    Go Gophers!

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    • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      We can't have humanist chaplains, because they aren't as moral as...oh, wait.

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      • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

        Did some reading last night. The notion of pearly gates and streets of gold in heaven comes from a passage describing the New Jerusalem.

        I believe heaven and hell are among us right now.
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        • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

          Originally posted by MissThundercat View Post
          Did some reading last night. The notion of pearly gates and streets of gold in heaven comes from a passage describing the New Jerusalem.

          I believe heaven and hell are among us right now.
          In general, I agree. They say war is hell. And I that makes sense. Society now knows what the ten commandments are. And it knows what Jesus was about. Both the needless waging of war and the on the ground execution of war pretty much represents all of that. There could well be more other subtle manifestations as well.
          Go Gophers!

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          • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

            This is all there is, so insofar as heaven and hell are real they have been with us all the way. "The kingdom of God is within you" also implies that everything is within us -- all the right paths and all the wrong paths.
            Last edited by Kepler; 04-08-2018, 08:31 AM.
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            • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              "The kingdom of God is within you" also implies that everything is within us -- all the right paths and all the wrong paths.
              Yeah. Lessons in the Bible provide a solid toolbox for self reflection, strength and guidance.
              Go Gophers!

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              • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                Yeah. Lessons in the Bible provide a solid toolbox for self reflection, strength and guidance.
                Or whatever. There are as many ways as there are people.
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                • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                  Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                  Yeah. Lessons in the Bible provide a solid toolbox for self reflection, strength and guidance.
                  Yup, the exact same schtick the Buddhists state. It's like they're all different ways of spinning and telling the same old lessons and ideals in life.
                  "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                  "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                  "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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                  • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                    The problem isn't choosing a path. The problem is saying it's the only path.

                    I think 5mn would agree with that if you restrict the set of paths to gods. He seems to get a little wiggy when we with no gods insist we are walking our path, too. He tells me again and again how my path leads nowhere.

                    That is really my only gripe with 5mn. In other respects he seems like a perfectly reasonable chap. He's just ignorant as hell about atheism.
                    Cornell University
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                    • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                      Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                      Yup, the exact same schtick the Buddhists state. It's like they're all different ways of spinning and telling the same old lessons and ideals in life.
                      I know, right?
                      Cornell University
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                      • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Or whatever. There are as many ways as there are people.
                        Jesus brought a new covenant, which changed everything. But yeah, folks have cherry picked the OT - ignoring their refuting in the new - to meet their own ends.

                        Its quite easy to criticize Lincoln in his childhood.

                        Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                        Yup, the exact same schtick the Buddhists state. It's like they're all different ways of spinning and telling the same old lessons and ideals in life.
                        You bet. Its hard to deny that Buddhists are faar better at personal liberation than any of us.
                        Go Gophers!

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                        • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                          HUMANS: God is infallible.

                          GOD: Hold my beer while I change a few things from that old book where I used mortals to write my divine teachings...
                          "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                          "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                          "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                          Comment


                          • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                            Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                            HUMANS: God is infallible.

                            GOD: Hold my beer while I change a few things from that old book where I used mortals to write my divine teachings...
                            Most atheist do believe the Bible was literal.
                            Go Gophers!

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                            • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                              Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                              Most atheist do believe the Bible was literal.
                              ? You're a thoughtful guy, 5mn, but what does that mean? Do you mean to say that you think most atheists believe the authors of (most?) books in the bible were speaking literally and not metaphorically on matters related to Christ and God?

                              Or are you just saying that atheists tend to create a christian straw man whose belief in God depends on a literal interpretation of the Bible, such as the 7-day creation story?

                              Something else entirely, I suspect.

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                              • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                                Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                                Most atheist do believe the Bible was literal.
                                I don't believe the Bible was literal. It's a giant metaphor, just like every other religious text upon which it was based.
                                "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                                "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                                "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                                Comment

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