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  • #16
    Done Deal

    Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
    Uchc AQ starts 2019-20.
    According to The UCHC site, (scroll to the bottom) Elmira has preemptively been awarded the League's first "AQ" and is hosting a first round NCAA game!?

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    • #17
      Re: Done Deal

      Originally posted by elbojpb View Post
      According to The UCHC site, (scroll to the bottom) Elmira has preemptively been awarded the League's first "AQ" and is hosting a first round NCAA game!?
      While I see it also, it has to be a mistake.
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      • #18
        Re: UCHC Standings

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        The highest ranked out of the WIAC & UCHC will be compared head to head. The higher ranked (W3 beats E4, for example) will get Pool B. The "loser" gets thrown into the Pool C pool.

        Then the highest ranked teams who are not in Pool A (AQ) or Pool B are compared to fill out the 12 team field.

        Remember a higher regional ranking beats everyone below your ranking. Thus if Adrian is W1 and SNC is W3, SNC will get a Pool C.

        Matt/Ray - I think I've gotten most of the pick the field threads from prior years.
        That is simply 100% wrong. And what would I want those for?
        Last edited by XYZ; 02-06-2018, 01:49 PM. Reason: I still type like a monkey
        I wish I am able to live long enough to do all the things I was attributed to.

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        • #19
          Re: UCHC Standings

          Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
          I don't know if that's necessarily true. Utica and Elmira have some nice non-conference wins this year.

          That's true enough, but there's no doubt that the (former West) is suddenly much weaker this season... As in, no Pool C candidate aside from one team,and only one prospect that could be an fair choice for a Pool B. (Yes, the same team.)

          It's incredibly ironic that D-3 will be fine with awarding a gift-AQ to the USHC next year, while the UCHC was obliged to make themselves a far worse conference in order to even be eligible...

          Seriously, people, how dumb is THAT?
          Last edited by Fishman'81; 02-06-2018, 09:49 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: UCHC Standings

            Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
            Thank you. I thought there were two Pool B bids in the offing, and evidently there's just the one.

            I don't pay much attention to the "process" because I find it too illogical, too inequitable and too arcane to merit the requisite attention to bother with it. JMO. (Before anyone gets too upset, I will readily admit that the past few fields have been well-selected, either by design or by accident.)

            I doubt I'll live to see the day, but D-3 really ought to go to an objective selection process of some sort, be it via the KRACH, or the RPI or a Pairwise of some sort, regardless of conference affiliation. It's fairly ironic that liberal private colleges embrace this version of gerrymandering that currently exists.
            For the 700th time. The selection process is the one that is mandated by the NCAA in all DIII sports. It has nothing to do with whether the schools are private or public. The same rules are used in Football, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, etc. If curling were an NCAA sport they would use the same process. The size of the field is determined by the number of schools sponsoring the sport. Subtract the number of Pool A bids from that number and you have the number of Pool B and Pool C bids. are available.
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            • #21
              Re: UCHC Standings

              Originally posted by NUProf View Post
              For the 700th time. The selection process is the one that is mandated by the NCAA in all DIII sports. It has nothing to do with whether the schools are private or public. The same rules are used in Football, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, etc. If curling were an NCAA sport they would use the same process. The size of the field is determined by the number of schools sponsoring the sport. Subtract the number of Pool A bids from that number and you have the number of Pool B and Pool C bids. are available.
              And, for the 700th time, simply because D-3 apparently regards its by-laws as having been shelpped-down the mount by Moses himself (as do you), they are not.

              D-3 can easily make things more equitable... That won't require a Constitutional Convention, last I checked.
              Last edited by Fishman'81; 02-07-2018, 08:47 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                And, for the 700th time, simply because D-3 apparently regards it's by-laws as having been shelpped-down the mount by Moses himself (as do you), they are not.

                D-3 can easily make things more equitable... That won't require a Constitutional Convention, last I checked.
                Facepalm

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                  And, for the 700th time, simply because D-3 apparently regards its by-laws as having been shelpped-down the mount by Moses himself (as do you), they are not.

                  D-3 can easily make things more equitable... That won't require a Constitutional Convention, last I checked.
                  Pretty sure it does. It's called the NCAA Convention. Where the membership passes their rules.

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                  • #24
                    Re: UCHC Standings

                    Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                    And, for the 700th time, simply because D-3 apparently regards its by-laws as having been shelpped-down the mount by Moses himself (as do you), they are not.

                    D-3 can easily make things more equitable... That won't require a Constitutional Convention, last I checked.
                    My point is simply this: the NCAA will not make special rules for just DIII hockey. It was tried once to allow games against DII teams playing in DIII hockey conferences to be counted as part of primary criteria for hockey. That small sport-specific change never got to be a proposal before the NCAA Convention. This means that any major changes in the selection process are about as likely as Unicorn sighting.
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                    2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
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                    • #25
                      Re: UCHC Standings

                      Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                      My point is simply this: the NCAA will not make special rules for just DIII hockey. It was tried once to allow games against DII teams playing in DIII hockey conferences to be counted as part of primary criteria for hockey. That small sport-specific change never got to be a proposal before the NCAA Convention. This means that any major changes in the selection process are about as likely as Unicorn sighting.
                      I'll certainly take your word for that. You have proven to be erudite on this topic.

                      But, my point continues to be this: why doesn't D-3 just tailor the calculus to whatever sport is in question? It ain't as though there's going to be a great hue and cry either way, in the largely invisible sphere of D-3 sports of any ilk. Are you saying that the NCAA even bothers to micro-manage such small potatoes?

                      (I suppose that it wouldn't shock me if they did, the disingenuous morons that they are, but I'm curious as to why they'd bother.)

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                      • #26
                        Re: UCHC Standings

                        Originally posted by Sir Nubs View Post
                        Pretty sure it does. It's called the NCAA Convention. Where the membership passes their rules.
                        No school is required to join the NCAA. Big-time football has considered opting-out for years now. Why doesn't D-3 hockey? A free-for-all on that lowly level might start the revolution!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                          No school is required to join the NCAA. Big-time football has considered opting-out for years now. Why doesn't D-3 hockey? A free-for-all on that lowly level might start the revolution!
                          Are you sure you're not a closet NESCACer?
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                          • #28
                            Re: UCHC Standings

                            Originally posted by joecct View Post
                            Are you sure you're not a closet NESCACer?
                            That reference is cryptic to me. I'm interested in being clued-in, if you care to do that.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                              That reference is cryptic to me. I'm interested in being clued-in, if you care to do that.
                              The NESCAC has at time viewed themselves as not fitting in with the rest of D3 and considered establishing a D4 or even leaving the NCAA. Their gripe has essentially been that D3 is not student-centric enough (the NESCAC is why D3 doesn’t allow redshirts anymore, and they were instrumental in delaying the allowable start date for hockey because of their fear of overlapping seasons, for example).

                              The real problem with leaving the NCAA is money. With their 0.5% share of the DI Basketball TV money, D3 would have no funding for its national championship tournaments. Do some hockey programs generate a small profit over operational costs? Yes, but only a few do and it’s certainly not enough to pay for tournament travel between Minneapolis and Boston, which is (roughly) the geographic footprint of D3 hockey. And good luck finding sponsors without the NCAA’s brand recognition.

                              I 100% agree with you that the system is nonsensical and there are much better alternatives. But I also agree with NUProf in that there is no point wasting our breath asking for a change, because getting 450 schools to sign off on a major exception for a sport that fewer than 80 play is simply not going to happen.
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                              • #30
                                Re: UCHC Standings

                                Originally posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post
                                I 100% agree with you that the system is nonsensical and there are much better alternatives. But I also agree with NUProf in that there is no point wasting our breath asking for a change, because getting 450 schools to sign off on a major exception for a sport that fewer than 80 play is simply not going to happen.
                                You have described the issue. Hockey wanted to try to make a carve out for the DII hockey programs that tried to fit into the D3 world. Nothing came of it because there was a fear that it would set a precedent for other sports making changes. There are number of sports that probably would want some changes to fit their unique situations. Since the general philosophy is "same rules for every sport," sports with lower levels of participation are not going to be allowed to make their own rules. I agree there are inequities in the system as far as hockey is concerned. One thing that would increase at large bids would be to change the minimum number of teams for a Pool A bid from 7 to a larger number like 10. Doing so would eliminate the tendency for single sports leagues to evolve with (remarkably) seven or 8 members.

                                Since the NCAA rule is one tournament slot for every 6.5 teams, Pool C bids occur because of the teams in leagues with more than 7 teams. Two 10 teams leagues will together generate two Pool A bids and one Pool C bid. (20 team produce 3 NCAA slots). However, it there were 21 teams in 3 7 team leagues, they will produce 3 Pool A bids and no Pool C bids.
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                                2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
                                2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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