Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    The only way you prevent this is stop hiring racists and military hotheads who have been trained to have a completely different set of ROEs. They don’t teach the type of deescalation needed for civilian law enforcement in the military. Sure, some of them are going to come back and understand the difference, there some of them aren’t.
    And that's why you have to have an extensive hiring process + the academy to sort it out.

    The problem is, not every department has the hiring standards of the Michigan State Police. Our state flunkies often get hired in other states, or as county/city cops.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

      Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
      And that's why you have to have an extensive hiring process + the academy to sort it out.

      The problem is, not every department has the hiring standards of the Michigan State Police. Our state flunkies often get hired in other states, or as county/city cops.
      It’s pretty evident that’s not working.
      Code:
      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
      Originally posted by SanTropez
      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
      Originally posted by Kepler
      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

        Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
        And that's why you have to have an extensive hiring process + the academy to sort it out.

        The problem is, not every department has the hiring standards of the Michigan State Police. Our state flunkies often get hired in other states, or as county/city cops.
        Worse still are the officers fired for cause by one department who then catch on with another. More should be done to stop that from happening.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

          It’s clear that policing, like many things in this country (especially education), should be directly controlled at the state level at the lowest.
          U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
          Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
          I spell Failure with UAF

          Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
          But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
          Originally posted by Doyle Woody
          Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

            Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
            It’s clear that policing, like many things in this country (especially education), should be directly controlled at the state level at the lowest.
            There are over 18,000 separate public law enforcement agencies in this country. For starters we should get rid of all of the county and local ones. "Local" police derive their power and authority from the state they work in, the state issues their certification and all are -- theoretically -- trained to the same standards in the state in which they work. And save for some local ordinances, the vast majority of the laws they enforce are consistent throughout the state. There should be one agency, the state police, that handles local law enforcement within a given state.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

              Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
              There are over 18,000 separate public law enforcement agencies in this country. For starters we should get rid of all of the county and local ones. "Local" police derive their power and authority from the state they work in, the state issues their certification and all are -- theoretically -- trained to the same standards in the state in which they work. And save for some local ordinances, the vast majority of the laws they enforce are consistent throughout the state. There should be one agency, the state police, that handles local law enforcement within a given state.
              I could go with that.

              What would the effect be if say, one is up for a certain level of rank, it would have to be federally approved, to make sure there is a certain universal standard applied? Or do we still keep that at state level?
              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                I could go with that.

                What would the effect be if say, one is up for a certain level of rank, it would have to be federally approved, to make sure there is a certain universal standard applied? Or do we still keep that at state level?
                It’d be almost impossible to have something like that require federal approval so it’s best to keep it at the state level.

                Policing and education are very similar in their application in this country. Wealthier areas are allowed to carve out their own funding areas to avoid sharing resources with the poor.
                U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                I spell Failure with UAF

                Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                  Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                  It’d be almost impossible to have something like that require federal approval so it’s best to keep it at the state level.
                  That is what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure.
                  Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                  Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                    Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                    Policing and education are very similar in their application in this country. Wealthier areas are allowed to carve out their own funding areas to avoid sharing resources with the poor.
                    One way they are vastly different though is how the ones that underperform are supported. When a public school system fails we take funds away by allowing charter schools to suck away some of their funding but when police departments underperform, people always want to hire more cops. My guess is if we hired more teachers at our underperforming schools most of them would get better.

                    Between the Cleveland Police Department, Cleveland Clinic Police Department, the Cleveland State University Police Department and the Cuyahoga Metro Housing Authority Police Department (90% + of their properties are within Cleveland), there are nearly 2000 police officers working in Cleveland, a city with an estimated population of about 390,000 people. Compare that with South Bend, IN, a city with a little over 100,000 people and just 225 cops. There have been 11 murders within South Bend in 2018 and already there have been 100 in Cleveland. Half the city council in Cleveland, black members and white, think we need to hire 2, 3 or 400 more cops. South Bend and Cleveland are similar in lots of ways. Manufacturing cities that have seen better days, similar racial makeups, decades of one political party control and a health care system being the largest single employer. Clearly the number of police officers isn't the issue. Yet empirical studies repeatedly show that class size in a school is one of the largest factors in how successfully the kids learn and the only way to shrink class size is to have more teachers.

                    Teachers pay for their own supplies all the time and schools hold bake sales so kids can play sports. When was the last time you saw cops holding a bake sale to pay for ammunition or $50,000 SUVs?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                      That’s a great question.
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                        I’ve been mulling RaceBoarder’s post over and I think I came to the same conclusion as you did.

                        These cops who are out there shooting unarmed people aren’t going to be dissuaded by his family getting punished after the fact. They are damaged goods.

                        To think that they’re going to pause before unloading an entire clip into an unarmed black man and ask, “Will this hurt my family?” That’s kind of absurd, right? At that moment there’s is no pausing. The adrenaline is flowing like a dam burst. Rationality isn’t going to happen.

                        The only way you prevent this is stop hiring racists and military hotheads who have been trained to have a completely different set of ROEs. They don’t teach the type of deescalation needed for civilian law enforcement in the military. Sure, some of them are going to come back and understand the difference, there some of them aren’t.
                        Maybe...but I guess I can see both sides of this one. She shouldnt be punished, but then again she shouldnt be rewarded either. I dunno I guess I havent really thought about it enough to really break it down.
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          Maybe...but I guess I can see both sides of this one. She shouldnt be punished, but then again she shouldnt be rewarded either. I dunno I guess I havent really thought about it enough to really break it down.
                          ANd that's a really difficult balance to strike. How do you not reward her without punishing her? I tend to err on the side of not punishing her. If that means a few people get benefits they shouldn't, I'd rather have that than a few people who don't get benefits but should. I think it ultimately comes down to that philosophical question. Maybe that's oversimplifying it, because we should be able to judge each case on its merits.

                          It's worth a debate as to how we treat the family in cases like this. It really deserves a thoughtful answer.
                          Code:
                          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                          Originally posted by SanTropez
                          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                          Originally posted by Kepler
                          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                            ANd that's a really difficult balance to strike. How do you not reward her without punishing her? I tend to err on the side of not punishing her. If that means a few people get benefits they shouldn't, I'd rather have that than a few people who don't get benefits but should. I think it ultimately comes down to that philosophical question. Maybe that's oversimplifying it, because we should be able to judge each case on its merits.

                            It's worth a debate as to how we treat the family in cases like this. It really deserves a thoughtful answer.
                            I guess the way I look at it is this.

                            First, the public pension is ordinarily a benefit that is provided in lieu of say a 401k retirement program, or perhaps higher pay, that you might see in the private sector. If an employee working for a corporation shoots a co-worker and goes to prison, we don't automatically seize his 401k or any money he has saved himself. That's really what the public pension is.

                            The innocent spouse does receive some "punishment" as a result of the cop losing his job and going to prison. She loses out on whatever additional pension or financial benefits he might have achieved if he had remained employed in good standing, to say nothing of his pay.
                            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                              ANd that's a really difficult balance to strike. How do you not reward her without punishing her? I tend to err on the side of not punishing her. If that means a few people get benefits they shouldn't, I'd rather have that than a few people who don't get benefits but should. I think it ultimately comes down to that philosophical question. Maybe that's oversimplifying it, because we should be able to judge each case on its merits.

                              It's worth a debate as to how we treat the family in cases like this. It really deserves a thoughtful answer.
                              The primary purpose of criminal courts is to punish the wrongdoer. The function of civil courts (in damages cases) is to compensate the injured, which usually means the wrongdoer coughs up some or all of his money. The more harm he causes, the more money he will give up. Insurance is typically not available for these kinds of wrongs because of intentional acts exclusion.

                              At least two factors could affect how much this affects the spouse of the wrongdoer. State marital property law will affect how much of their mutual assets are available for judgment against only one of them. Bankruptcy may also protect some assets, such as retirement plans.

                              Unless the spouse or other family member is a provable conspirator or accomplice, they should not be punished for a relationship. Civil court can make that happen indirectly by making the wrongdoer pay money that would otherwise be enjoyed by the spouse.

                              Pension plans can contain their own contract conditions, of course, and that's a union matter for cops, I assume.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

                                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                                I guess the way I look at it is this.

                                First, the public pension is ordinarily a benefit that is provided in lieu of say a 401k retirement program, or perhaps higher pay, that you might see in the private sector. If an employee working for a corporation shoots a co-worker and goes to prison, we don't automatically seize his 401k or any money he has saved himself. That's really what the public pension is.

                                The innocent spouse does receive some "punishment" as a result of the cop losing his job and going to prison. She loses out on whatever additional pension or financial benefits he might have achieved if he had remained employed in good standing, to say nothing of his pay.
                                Originally posted by burd View Post
                                The primary purpose of criminal courts is to punish the wrongdoer. The function of civil courts (in damages cases) is to compensate the injured, which usually means the wrongdoer coughs up some or all of his money. The more harm he causes, the more money he will give up. Insurance is typically not available for these kinds of wrongs because of intentional acts exclusion.

                                At least two factors could affect how much this affects the spouse of the wrongdoer. State marital property law will affect how much of their mutual assets are available for judgment against only one of them. Bankruptcy may also protect some assets, such as retirement plans.

                                Unless the spouse or other family member is a provable conspirator or accomplice, they should not be punished for a relationship. Civil court can make that happen indirectly by making the wrongdoer pay money that would otherwise be enjoyed by the spouse.

                                Pension plans can contain their own contract conditions, of course, and that's a union matter for cops, I assume.
                                Good posts, both.
                                Code:
                                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                                BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                                Originally posted by SanTropez
                                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                                Originally posted by Kepler
                                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X