Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Brent we absolutely do not need more cops. I know you will disagree with that but you don't understand how modern policing should work, or how much money is wasted by police departments on things that are entirely unnecessary. First of all, having more police doing routine patrols does not reduce crime. Some academics in criminology have even suggested that having routine patrols by cops make about as much sense as having your local fire department tooling around with an engine company on fire watch. Additionally, so much money is wasted on things like DARE programs and expensive tactical teams when neither has been shown empirically to have the effects on things that we are led to believe by those who are running our police departments. Finally, we have far, FAR too many individual departments. Different training standards and response protocol mean every one of the 18,000 separate agencies might respond differently to the same situation.

If you want to reduce crime, increase education and increase opportunities for good jobs for people in the urban core of our larger cities. The last thing we need to do is throw more money to our criminal justice system if you actually want to reduce crime. Of course, those are wimpy, lefty, pansy solutions, whereas hiring more tough heroic guys to be cops is the American he-man thing to do.

You realize I said more training, more education, and more relationships w/public is what I prefer. However, some areas are under-patrolled. WITH the proper training, more patrols would reduce crime. I'm not advocating bust everyone, question everyone. But more presence would reduce crime, and I stress with proper training.

[jerphisch]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

So like, put a cop in every corner office of Fortune 500 companies?

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

So like, put a cop in every corner office of Fortune 500 companies?

....and here we go....................sigh

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

You realize I said more training, more education, and more relationships w/public is what I prefer. However, some areas are under-patrolled. WITH the proper training, more patrols would reduce crime. I'm not advocating bust everyone, question everyone. But more presence would reduce crime, and I stress with proper training.

More presence only reduces crime if the presence is overwhelming. Does Cleveland really need 5000 cops? 5000 cops would probably reduce crime, but at the cost of becoming a police state. And where does THAT money come from? A better educated populace and citizens who TRUST the cops would slash crime far more effectively than just hiring more cops.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

....and here we go....................sigh

I am more likely to be victimized by white collar crimes, labor law violation and wage and hour violations, or workplace safety violations than I am to be a victim of what most people think of when they think of "crime."

A friend of mine and her co-workers were victimized by their employer for years because that employer treated them as independent contractors when in fact they were employees. So when their workplace was shuttered, they had no access to the unemployment compensation they had actually earned. That cost them potentially 1000s of dollars. It also cost the local economy and it needlessly added a burden to our Social Security system (however small compared to the billions of other dollars it takes in, but that's not the point). Yet she or her co-workers couldn't dial 9-1-1. The only recourse they had would have been a time consuming and arduous task of pursuing this all on their own, and in the interim, the employer would have just decided to not offer them work anymore.

So yeah, cop in every corner office of big companies would go a long way to reducing crime that actually costs all of us.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

More presence only reduces crime if the presence is overwhelming. Does Cleveland really need 5000 cops? 5000 cops would probably reduce crime, but at the cost of becoming a police state. And where does THAT money come from? A better educated populace and citizens who TRUST the cops would slash crime far more effectively than just hiring more cops.

And there is the balance. If you just put 5000 jarheads on the streets, that is not good. You put 2500 more, trained properly, then boom. I think we have some cohesiveness.

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

And there is the balance. If you just put 5000 jarheads on the streets, that is not good. You put 2500 more, trained properly, then boom. I think we have some cohesiveness.

How about no jarheads on the streets because police aren't a f-cking occupation force?

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

How about no jarheads on the streets because police aren't a f-cking occupation force?

More than fine with that. I've run into the jarheads, and thankfully, my uncle and great grand-father were no jarheads. They followed the law, mostly to a T. They were tough, but fair. Stress on the latter.

Edit: they weren't gonna come down hard on you doing 10 over the limit, or loitering, etc.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

And there is the balance. If you just put 5000 jarheads on the streets, that is not good. You put 2500 more, trained properly, then boom. I think we have some cohesiveness.

Cleveland has approximately 2000 uniformed, sworn police officers from various departments operating within the city limits. A city that has just 390,000 people. South Bend, IN, not possessed of the best police department by any stretch, has about 240 cops with specific jurisdiction within the city limits, and has a population of about 105,000. It isn't over run with crime. Why, with fewer than 4 times the population, does Cleveland need 8.5 times as many cops? More cops means nothing when it comes to reducing crime. I'd sooner Cleveland lose half the cops operating in the city than add to the ones who already don't know how to do their jobs. You need to study this issue more Brent. You really do. I'm not casting aspersions specifically on your relatives who chose a career in law enforcement, and hopefully they behaved as you said they did/do and conducted themselves with professionalism. But your judgement is affected greatly by the relationships. With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the problems with policing and what needs to be done to improve it.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Cleveland has approximately 2000 uniformed, sworn police officers from various departments operating within the city limits. A city that has just 390,000 people. South Bend, IN, not possessed of the best police department by any stretch, has about 240 cops with specific jurisdiction within the city limits, and has a population of about 105,000. It isn't over run with crime. Why, with fewer than 4 times the population, does Cleveland need 8.5 times as many cops? More cops means nothing when it comes to reducing crime. I'd sooner Cleveland lose half the cops operating in the city than add to the ones who already don't know how to do their jobs. You need to study this issue more Brent. You really do. I'm not casting aspersions specifically on your relatives who chose a career in law enforcement, and hopefully they behaved as you said they did/do and conducted themselves with professionalism. But your judgement is affected greatly by the relationships. With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the problems with policing and what needs to be done to improve it.

Look at the mentality and makeup of the populace. You can't just look at numbers.

As for my relatives, they busted their own sons, because that was the law, and the sons thought they could name-drop. Wrong. But other first-timers? Meh, warning, with full force coming if it happened again, that sorta thing.

Mpls is begging for more officers, people are split on more officers (need more eyes!) vs "we don't need a police state!" It's a tough balance to find. I don't envy the government on this one.

[jerphisch]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

....and here we go....................sigh

So, preventing a few deaths is worth the expenditure of resources, preventing oh say...7 million per year would be a waste of time? Opioid epidemic, no big deal, it's ok for people to have "misled" about the addictive nature? Oil companies withholding knowledge of climate change and their impact on it, no biggie? But sure, let's pump some more money into stopping a mugging.

[St. Clown]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

So like, put a cop in every corner office of Fortune 500 companies?

Even if you were remotely serious, what good would that do? The average police officer would not recognize a single white-collar crime if it were happening in front of his/her face. You'd need an FBI or Treasury agent for that.

[SJHovey]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

Even if you were remotely serious, what good would that do? The average police officer would not recognize a single white-collar crime if it were happening in front of his/her face. You'd need an FBI or Treasury agent for that.

Not only wouldn't a cop recognize it, your average cop is not interested in recognizing it.

About 10 years ago an older couple asked if I would help them figure out a problem they had with a guy. There was no question this guy was stealing money from them, taking advantage of their advanced age. I told them they should definitely take this to the police, and they wanted to, but they asked if I could go with them and help explain it to the cops. I agreed.

30 seconds in the cop's eyes glazed over and he stopped taking notes. I actually thought about just throwing in a line like "and then he digitally penetrated her" just to see if he was still awake.

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

I have told this story multiple times so I apologize if you heard it before:

Years ago my dad ran a small business. The numbers never seemed right and since I was technically part of the business I looked at the books. Small checks were being written and cashed with forged signatures. I think we found like 8-10k total over the course of a year. We knew who did it, where they were and had copies of the forged checks. The bank was going to refund the money but first they wanted us to talk to the local cops and get them to sign off on something. (honestly cant remember what)

My dad and I walk in to the PD and talk to a couple of detectives. We hand them all the evidence they need. (my father at one time was an attorney so he knew how to play it) They sat there with blank looks on their faces nodding every so often but obviously not caring. When we were done they basically told us they dont have the time or resources to deal with this and we should just do what we need to do with the bank and be done with it. Now mind you, this was not some small town PD or something, this was a pretty well off suburb where our property taxes werent exactly low. Hell the person (who had previous crimes on their record for similar crimes) was not 1 mile away and wasnt even denying they did it! Nope. They pushed us on our way with whatever we needed from the bank and that was it.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

So, preventing a few deaths is worth the expenditure of resources, preventing oh say...7 million per year would be a waste of time? Opioid epidemic, no big deal, it's ok for people to have "misled" about the addictive nature? Oil companies withholding knowledge of climate change and their impact on it, no biggie? But sure, let's pump some more money into stopping a mugging.

And the above post is why I shall refer back to my quote. *sigh*

And yeah, many depts DON'T have the budgets nor the resources to investigate some stuff, which leads me back to my opinion we need more cops and money (and again, properly trained) to get some stuff done.