Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I'm done.

Being trans is nothing like having a pirate hook for a hand.

But on Sundays, they stand up and proclaim God is love. They HATE us.

https://www.newwaysministry.org/2019...fVigz8tGK7YVPM

Some people get it, some people don't.

In the US, Christian institutions attract and reward reactionaries and authoritarians. They are an ever-present traffic hazard of that life choice. I'm a Mets fan. I have to spend a lot of time with New Yorkers, many of whom are as-sholes. Same kind of thing.

You seem to have been able to find the spiritual connections you want in your life with people who are religious yet lack that hatred and fear, papered over with protestations of love and made even more ridiculous by an appeal to divine authority. Like everything else in life: avoid toxic people and spend your time with good people. You know this; you'll be ok because you're smart about it and don't let these morons into your head, and because you're strong and you stand up to these cowards.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Some people get it, some people don't.

In the US, Christian institutions attract and reward reactionaries and authoritarians. They are an ever-present traffic hazard of that life choice. I'm a Mets fan. I have to spend a lot of time with New Yorkers, many of whom are as-sholes. Same kind of thing.

You seem to have been able to find the spiritual connections you want in your life with people who are religious yet lack that hatred and fear, papered over with protestations of love and made even more ridiculous by an appeal to divine authority. Like everything else in life: avoid toxic people and spend your time with good people. You know this; you'll be ok because you're smart about it and don't let these morons into your head, and because you're strong and you stand up to these cowards.

I think I would disagree with this. I think it would be more accurate to say the 'Christian' institutions who harbor reactionaries and authoritarians attract attention and are rewarded with coverage because of it.

People practicing normal Christianity are generally boring. It is much more attention grabbing to have some knuckle-dragger spout hatred and fear monger than it is to listen to someone talk about serving in a soup kitchen on a Saturday evening or making care packages for homeless youth.

My church does not tolerate reactionary or authoritarian types. In fact it is something that is preached against and brought up when it is in the news. If anyone in our church did that and got news coverage there would be all sorts of outreach to the media and community to correct it.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I think I would disagree with this. I think it would be more accurate to say the 'Christian' institutions who harbor reactionaries and authoritarians attract attention and are rewarded with coverage because of it.

People practicing normal Christianity are generally boring. It is much more attention grabbing to have some knuckle-dragger spout hatred and fear monger than it is to listen to someone talk about serving in a soup kitchen on a Saturday evening or making care packages for homeless youth.

My church does not tolerate reactionary or authoritarian types. In fact it is something that is preached against and brought up when it is in the news. If anyone in our church did that and got news coverage there would be all sorts of outreach to the media and community to correct it.

I'm very glad there are many Christians who abhor this sick behavior, but let's be serious -- the atheist community doesn't have a pedophile, domestic violence, racist problem. To find truly horrific evil, let me take you to... Fundytown! The fact that there's a correlation doesn't mean religion implies this kind of illness; just that it attracts it.

Russell Kirk, brilliant conservative intellectual, famously said "not all conservatives are reactionaries but all reactionaries are conservatives." In the same way there are many wonderful, intelligent, subtle, loving Christians, but you guys also have cornered the market on the short bus crowd. The certainty of religious faith, which is such a comfort, is also a magnet for the worst type of mindless totalitarian psychotics. We see this cup overflowing with the current GOP. You just don't have that kind of sh-tbird in the non-theist community. We repel them for a variety of reasons.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I'm very glad there are many Christians who abhor this sick behavior, but let's be serious -- the atheist community doesn't have a pedophile, domestic violence, racist problem. To find truly horrific evil, let me take you to... Fundytown! The fact that there's a correlation doesn't mean religion implies this kind of illness; just that it attracts it.

Russell Kirk, brilliant conservative intellectual, famously said "not all conservatives are reactionaries but all reactionaries are conservatives." In the same way there are many wonderful, intelligent, subtle, loving Christians, but you guys also have cornered the market on the short bus crowd. The certainty of religious faith, which is such a comfort, is also a magnet for the worst type of mindless totalitarian psychotics. We see this cup overflowing with the current GOP. You just don't have that kind of sh-tbird in the non-theist community. We repel them for a variety of reasons.

I have to admit it surprised to see this post. I wouldn't expect you to pass judgement/generalize about an entire group of people like that. Some of the most obnoxious, reactionary and inflammatory people I know are non-theists. Look at this board. Off the top of my head Foxton was an excellent example. Totally off the deep end, obnoxious, self righteous and inflammatory. I would put those posts up against a fundy wacko any day. Pretty sure a fair amt of the white supremacists have no thoughts about Christianity= they just want 'purity'

Any side to this has its crazies. And one side doesn't beat the other at being crazy, obnoxious, inflammatory, and unreasonable. And all sides have people who are capable of reasoned discussion. The latter are boring and rarely get any attention

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I have to admit it surprised to see this post. I wouldn't expect you to pass judgement/generalize about an entire group of people like that.

You may not be familiar with my work.

But anyway, OK, I retract. The fundamental problem isn't religion or theism, it's dummies. Religious dummies tend to strut their stuff in the name of religion, but that's guilt by association. Presumably it's the same problem libertarianism has: aspects of the ideology tend to magnify the unpleasantness of the dummies who ally with it. Dummy socialists are pretty rank, too.

Basically any faith that says "I have the truth" is not going to go well when dummies get involved.

[MissThundercat]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Kep said I found spiritual connections that weren't ugly or hateful. Well, my team keeps showing up for me. This past Friday, I learned a very good friend of mine committed suicide, and my team hasn't stopped holding me tight or listening to my grief since then. One of my Grace Episcopal Mamas stayed later at Holland Pride yesterday just to hold me close and provide a shoulder to lean on.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

the atheist community doesn't have a pedophile, domestic violence, racist problem.

Careful, you'll give 5mn to come back in here to give some one-off example of an atheist who was (probably) a pedophile.

[MissThundercat]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Oh my... I believe. And I was talking with another friend who believes as well. But one of her responses to my friend's suicide is that "we live in a fallen world."

On one hand, I want to slap her senseless.

On the other, I believe she's just detached from the situation and has never had to offer comfort and prayer at a time like this.

So, even though she's 20-25 years older than me, I just believe her brain isn't developed yet.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

If she's 20-25 years older than you, odds are she may still be of the mindset that suicide is a sin. That attitude is hard to shake among people older than 55.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Oh my... I believe. And I was talking with another friend who believes as well. But one of her responses to my friend's suicide is that "we live in a fallen world."

On one hand, I want to slap her senseless.

On the other, I believe she's just detached from the situation and has never had to offer comfort and prayer at a time like this.

So, even though she's 20-25 years older than me, I just believe her brain isn't developed yet.

I am not articulate tonight- trying to convey what I am thinking but probably won't be successful.

I think also that people fatigue out when they have experienced repetitive anguish for a long time. They learn not to feel as acutely or have been down the road before and get almost resigned to it happening. The older the person is the more likely you are to see death viewed as a part of the cycle even when it is a horrible one. Not like they don't feel but they have a lot of practice feeling and working thru what they feel. They are less shocked even when bad things happen unexpectedly. They don't seem to struggle as much with the injustice- I have heard a lot of people acknowledge it sucks but then say there is nothing they can do, could have done (even if that is not true).

I know a few people mostly in their 80s who view grief as a human problem. They believe in God, the hereafter and think the person who died is fine, the issue is a human failing of not being glad for the person who is now OK. I am not sure how this jives with the loss of the person in your life but some of them have lost most of their friends so this is what they come up with.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Betteridge's Law.

[joecct]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

After spending a few million $$ fighting the Sheen family , the Archdiocese of NY finally complied with the court(s) order and transferred the body to Fulton J. Sheen from the crypt of St. Patrick's Cathedral to the Diocese of Peoria (at 5:55 am).

Many want to know why the ADNY spent so much and fought so long. What are they hiding?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Sounds to me like they just wanted the guy's bones. The Church has always had a weird fascination with bone relics, likely as an easy way to keep the coffers full back during medieval and Renaissance times when the Popes were more *ahem*...worldly.

"There is a mandatory donation of 10 pieces of gold to pray in the Chapel of St. Butterface's Femur, my son. How do we know it's her bones, you ask? Get behind me Satan, have you no FAITH?!?!"

The Wittelsbachs had 2-3 rooms full of them lying around at the Residenz in Munich, presumably protecting them from the heretical Lutheran hordes of Saxony and Prussia.

[joecct]

Sounds to me like they just wanted the guy's bones. The Church has always had a weird fascination with bone relics, likely as an easy way to keep the coffers full back during medieval and Renaissance times when the Popes were more *ahem*...worldly.

"There is a mandatory donation of 10 pieces of gold to pray in the Chapel of St. Butterface's Femur, my son. How do we know it's her bones, you ask? Get behind me Satan, have you no FAITH?!?!"

The Wittelsbachs had 2-3 rooms full of them lying around at the Residenz in Munich, presumably protecting them from the heretical Lutheran hordes of Saxony and Prussia.

It has to do with the advancement for sainthood.

I also think there are some ++Spellman skeletons that the ADNY did not want out of the closet.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Spellman is pretty well documented, though I suppose it would be more scandalous if he'd been carrying on with another celebrated priest, rather than just a Broadway guild member.