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Thread: End of Verbal Agreements??

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    End of Verbal Agreements??

    Interesting piece today in the G.F. Herald. Apparently the concept of honoring verbal agreements may become a thing of the past....

    In the meantime, verbal commitments have been taking center stage at recent coaches conventions.

    Currently, college hockey coaches do not recruit players once they have made a verbal commitment. In other NCAA sports, coaches routinely pursue them until they have signed letters of intent.

    Most likely, some of the more established programs — the ones most affected by the CHL poaching players — would be open to ending the gentleman’s agreement. It would allow them to poach top recruits of smaller schools to replace those lost via the CHL or NHL.

    “Verbal commitments, early commitments and long lists of future commitments are serious areas of discussion right now,” Hakstol said. “There are a lot of sides to that issue. It’s a very complicated issue. My opinion has changed over time. I was a very strong proponent of it eight to 10 years ago. I think we need to find a middle ground on verbal commitments.

    “I think we want to continue the gentlemanly side of college hockey and our close-knit community. At the same time, I think it’s time we take a real close look at exactly what we’re doing.”
    This all centers on the continuing raids made by the CHL and Paul Kelly from college hockey inc is trying to draft legislation that would prevent CHL teams from acquiring players that have signed L.O.I. Of course the CHL will never agree to such a proposal and Hakstol makes a very interesting comment....

    “We need to have a deal in place with the NHL and with the CHL,” UND coach Dave Hakstol said. “We are going into a back-alley brawl. They are bringing guns. We’re coming with no weapon and one hand tied behind our back.”

    If no agreement is reached with the NHL or the CHL, Hakstol thinks it’s worth exploring the possibility of opening up CHL players to colleges.

    The NCAA would have to change its stance on the CHL, but Hakstol believes it’s possible.

    “The first and most important step would be the coaches discussing it and deciding that it would be a good pathway for us to take,” he said. “I think if that group was to decide on it, it would be feasible.”

    The positive for college hockey would be that teams could pluck CHL players, including high-end guys, to replace recruits it loses. If the CHL is open to colleges, it also may be more likely to agree to new transfer rules.
    Let the speculation begin.

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by jnacc View Post
    Interesting piece today in the G.F. Herald. Apparently the concept of honoring verbal agreements may become a thing of the past....



    This all centers on the continuing raids made by the CHL and Paul Kelly from college hockey inc is trying to draft legislation that would prevent CHL teams from acquiring players that have signed L.O.I. Of course the CHL will never agree to such a proposal and Hakstol makes a very interesting comment....



    Let the speculation begin.
    Why not just recruit more US players? UND is just as popular as a program as any. Not that the CHL isn't attractive to US born, just not as likely to go that route. Generally speaking the kids going the CHL route couldn't care less about a degree in the 1st place so why waste a scholarship on them. I'd think the alumni would question that just as much as they'd question the poaching.

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    So let me get this straight, Big Schools are sad CHL can poach recruits from them, solution is to allow Big Schools can poach recruits from Small Schools?
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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy Man View Post
    So let me get this straight, Big Schools are sad CHL can poach recruits from them, solution is to allow Big Schools can poach recruits from Small Schools?
    Pretty well much spot on....end the verbal agreements and it will be the small schools that suffer....

    Why not just recruit more US players? UND is just as popular as a program as any. Not that the CHL isn't attractive to US born, just not as likely to go that route.
    This all stems from UND losing two top U.S. born recruits to the CHL.....frankly I'm with Hakstol on opening up the NCAA to CHL players as it would help most programs but do not agree with him on verbals.

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy Man View Post
    So let me get this straight, Big Schools are sad CHL can poach recruits from them, solution is to allow Big Schools can poach recruits from Small Schools?
    Yes, the big boys don't like losing on their bets. Sure, they're happy to let a good kid go to a minnow because it won't really affect them... but now that they're getting fewer good kids the market is getting hard and it sounds like they're looking for opportunities.

    -----

    FURTHER, this makes me continue to be suspicious of College Hockey Inc. as I'm unsure whose interests they represent. Does he represent the constituent schools or only certain schools?

    -----

    The CHL has nothing to do with this discussion other than that the top schools who get players who tease them via the CHL are losing out. Are we arguing that college hockey is only good when certain key programs have routine success? If so, then I think the rest of us need to pay attention and realize that College Hockey Inc. is not in fact serving our interests. If that means no longer making nice in public, so be it. This is an internal matter to college hockey... don't whine that the devil made you do it... unless you want to admit to the horns on your own head.
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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    As a Goph fan, my kneejerk reaction is f-em, they're going about it wrong in the first place.

    After said kneejerk reaction, i'd say tread carefully. The Hak will get plenty of support because most US College's couldn't care less about where the kids come from, the development of US Hockey in general and all the emphasis is on banners.

    Imo, there should be a limit on how many non US residents comprise a US College Hockey roster, leaving the ability to go out of the Country but placing a limit on it. UND currently has 11 Canadians on the roster, all young kids (not the 23yr old fresman variety ie the DU program of the 60's).

    College Hockey and the development of the sport in the US needs to be protected and supported. Lets say Penn State goes out and gets 18 Canadians and gobbles up a bunch of NCAA's, how does that effect the rest of the programs? Not asking you, its just my point.

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    So, we want to combat losing players to the CHL late by stealing committed recruits from smaller programs late?

    Does this seem hypocritical to anyone else?

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
    So, we want to combat losing players to the CHL late by stealing committed recruits from smaller programs late?

    Does this seem hypocritical to anyone else?
    Agreed. This makes very little sense to me.
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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
    So, we want to combat losing players to the CHL late by stealing committed recruits from smaller programs late?

    Does this seem hypocritical to anyone else?
    i think its absolutely disgusting, but hey, all that matters is banners right?

    I hope the smaller programs, which make up the bulk of programs (unfortunately not the bulk of revenue) speaks up on this, we all know what MN will have to say about it..

    The fellow NCHC programs feel how about this? Dean Blais will not be on board, Motzko wont be cool with it. The Hak is making new friends

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    Why not just recruit more US players? UND is just as popular as a program as any. Not that the CHL isn't attractive to US born, just not as likely to go that route. Generally speaking the kids going the CHL route couldn't care less about a degree in the 1st place so why waste a scholarship on them. I'd think the alumni would question that just as much as they'd question the poaching.
    But the U.S. players are the ones leaving the NCAA for the CHL. Within the last year, UND, Michigan, Boston College, Boston University and Miami have all been burned by CHL teams poaching players/recruits. And a lot of the players in question played with the National Team Development Program in Ann Arbor (ie: Miller, Matteau, Campbell, Fowler, Gibson, Boucher).

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by jnacc View Post
    This all stems from UND losing two top U.S. born recruits to the CHL.....frankly I'm with Hakstol on opening up the NCAA to CHL players as it would help most programs but do not agree with him on verbals.
    In the past the kids out west would verbal to WCHA schools and the kids back east would go Hockey East. Poaching recruits from schools in your own conference was unseemly.

    Now we're going to have four conferences with overlapping geographic footprints recruiting similar players. Easier to cherry pick late developing recruits from other conference schools when your blue chipper jumps ship at the 11th hour.

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    First of all, these teams never had these players, the players just did the verbal as a negotiating ploy with the CHL. Second of all, since UND hasn't won anything in decades, of course they want to recruit even more overage ex-pro Canadians, just like they did back when they were good.
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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    I don't know about the other players, but Miller and Matteau had signed Letters of Intent with UND, they weren't just verbal committments. Plymouth had been persuing Miller for a year or two so he had plenty of time to sign with them if that was the route he really wanted to go. Why he waited until the 11th hour is beyond me. Matteau was committed to UND right up until late December when he received a lengthy suspension from the USHL, and then in January his CHL rights were traded to the team his father coaches.

    The CHL is currently persuing several other UND commits, most of whom are American. Hopefully NoDak can hang on to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissSioux85 View Post
    But the U.S. players are the ones leaving the NCAA for the CHL. Within the last year, UND, Michigan, Boston College, Boston University and Miami have all been burned by CHL teams poaching players/recruits. And a lot of the players in question played with the National Team Development Program in Ann Arbor (ie: Miller, Matteau, Campbell, Fowler, Gibson, Boucher).
    So, the answer is to steal players from the smaller programs?

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    They aren't gentlemanly enough to honor the handshake line, why honor verbals?

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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    They aren't gentlemanly enough to honor the handshake line, why honor verbals?
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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    The University of North Dakota hockey program is interested in only one thing . . . The University of North Dakota Hockey program.
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    Smile Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Quote Originally Posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
    So, the answer is to steal players from the smaller programs?
    Yes. The awesome thing about this is now UND can be blamed for another thing when this happens. Hooray! Everything is UND's fault!

    The idea that most of the time any school is out for anyone else but themselves is amusing.
    Last edited by Dirty; 02-06-2012 at 05:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty View Post
    Yes. The awesome thing about this is now UND can be blamed for another thing when this happens. Hooray! Everything is UND's fault!

    The idea that most of the time any school is out for anyone else but themselves is amusing.
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    Re: End of Verbal Agreements??

    Having collegiate athletes in the family when they were younger I went throught the process with them. A verbal is just that, a verbal agreement by a prospect to play for a program for a given set of conditions, ie scholarsip money. Either side can op out if they so choose, in the kids case a better offer. It's difficult for a coach to counter an offer as their scholarship money has usually been divided among their current players and what's offered to each incoming so there's really nothing left over to counter with. I don't know firsthand of a coach backing out of their verbal without giving reason but it's probally happened, when it does happen for a given reason it's usually because the kid got in legal trouble or didn't come through on the grades. Now once you sign your letter of intent it's no longer a verbal but a contract that is enforced by the NCAA. For a kid to get out of that the school has to release them, they just can't jump ship as they choose as they can when it's still a verbal.

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