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Thread: NCAA Tourney Format

  1. #1
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    NCAA Tourney Format

    This is just for fun. I know this will never happen with the current regulations, but I just wanted to see what people thought about this idea.


    12 Team Tournament: 8 East, 4 West

    East: 6 Conference Winners plus 2 At-Large
    West: 3 Conference Winners plus 1 At-Large
    *I don't care what system is used for At-Large as long as it's a known metric*

    Keep the time-frame we're using this season with two full weekends before the championship.

    East: Rank the teams between 1-8
    West: Rank the teams between 1-4

    First Weekend:
    @E1
    E1 v E8
    E4 v E5
    Winners play the next day

    @E2
    E2 v E7
    E3 v E6
    Winners play the next day

    @W1
    W1 v W4

    @W2
    W2 v W3

    Second Weekend:
    Remaining two East teams @ higher seed

    Remaining two West teams @ higher seed


    Third Weekend:
    Best two-out-of-three Championship Series
    East Winner v West Winner @ Campus site (Alternate East/West every year)

    In my opinion nothing beats championship games played on campus. I know it limits traveling fans, but the atmosphere is unreal.


    So, just as an example using the current rankings and higher seeds, this tournament would look like:

    East:
    @Oswego
    Oswego v Curry
    Norwich v Williams

    @Elmira
    Elmira v Mass-Dartmouth
    Plattsburgh v Castleton

    West:
    Hamline @ St. Norbert
    UWS @ Adrian

    *I've flipped the rankings of Castelton/Williams and Hamline/UWS to avoid 1st round intra-conference match-ups. Also there is no 500 mile rule because we will be saving money by playing a total of 6 games at only 2 sites in the east on the 1st weekend.

  2. #2
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Almost 200 views and not one response? I can take a hint.

    I'm sorry for wasting all of your time with my clearly outlandish idea. I'll go back to my hole now.

  3. #3
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Dont ya love it....all the whining and complaining people do on here, yet they can't even show how they would do things...amazing isn't it..

  4. #4
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    I don't think you need to go back into your hole, I like your "out-of-the-box" thinking.

    Unfortunately the 12 team thing would throw the NCAA for a loop, because it does not fit the established ratio. However, it seems like a very simple and practical system, saves money and keeps the home fans of at least one team very involved. Too bad it makes sense, therefore it probably will not happen.

  5. #5
    Nate LePage, Siena '13 CARDS_rule_the_Burgh's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Quote Originally Posted by AldenPartridge1819 View Post
    This is just for fun... (Commenting on the rest of this post, but for aesthetic reasons I'm shortening it significantly in the quote)
    Check your rep

    Now, as oldguard said, this makes a lot of sense (and thank you for posting this - some really good ideas here!), but it almost makes too much sense for DIII :P

    I do have a few comments to make, however:

    1. The 2 full weekends thing is actually by accident this year. Usually, it's Play-ins the Tuesday after Conference Championships, Quarterfinals that Saturday, Finalfour (I think that spelling of the term complies with the trademark regulations?) the following weekend. It got changed this year to avoid conflict with the WCHA Final Five. Am I saying that we shouldn't make this change permanent? No. But of course, your way of doing it (i.e. filling all 3 weekends) makes more sense then this year's week off.

    2. I honestly don't like the idea of dictating that is MUST be West vs. East in the Finals. That's nice and aesthetically pleasing, but what if Plattsburgh and Oswego both went 23-0-2 in the regular season, with the 2 ties to each other, and went to 2OT in the SUNYAC Final, etc, and nobody else had at least 20 wins. Would you not want to see those 2 in the best-of-three format finals? Ensuring that they meet in the single-elimination semifinal would mean that the championship may effectively be decided in 1 game, rather than the intended three. (Yes, there would still be a possibility of an upset in the finals, but a minimal one.) My suggestion would be to have you SEMIFINAL match ups be determined by overall seed (or, since NCAA like fixed brackets, the overall seed of the host in each QF "pod"), that way, barring any upsets, the two best teams face off in a best-of-three final, not in a single elimination final.

    3. Regardless of how you structure it, the NCAA will still put in a 500-mile restriction. That's just the way they are. And honestly, it makes (financial) sense to use the 500-mile rule in this structure anyway. I'm going to give you a hypothetical bracket here. Tell me if you think they will actually save money by using this without a 500mi rule:

    E1 Curry
    E2 Fredonia
    E3 USM
    E4 Plattsburgh
    E5 Oswego
    E6 Colby
    E7 Salem
    E8 Elmira

    Under your system, we have the following teams travelling:

    To Curry:
    Plattsburgh (255mi)
    Oswego (348 mi)
    Elmira (365mi)

    To Fredonia
    USM (597mi)
    Colby (674mi)
    Salem (546mi)

    In particular, sending USM and Colby to Fredonia would be absolutely ridiculous in place of sending Colby TO Maine. Now, if we enforced a 500mile rule, which I acknowledge is a bit complicated in the West, we would end up just switching the host sites (USM, Colby, Salem to Curry, and Platty, Oz, and Elmira to Fredonia). Yes, this would increase the travel length of Plattsburgh, but would eliminate flight and decrease travel length for the other 5 significantly.

    So, if this format did occur, I would actually be in favor of continuing the 500 mile rule, at least in the east.
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    NEWHL Champ x2: 18, 19
    NCAA DIII Champ x10-ish: 87, 92, 01, 07, 08, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19
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  6. #6

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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    The Bracket as it now stands:

    With the expected shipping of Adrian to Elmira we have, in effect, a 9/2 bracket....

    Byes
    Oswego
    St. Norbert
    Elmira

    Playins
    Hosted by Norwich & Plattsburgh & ??
    On the road: ECAC-NE, ECAC-W, and ??

    QF
    East 6/7 winner @ Oswego
    MIAC @ St. Norbert
    Adrian @ Elmira
    Winner of ??? @ Norwich vs. winner of ??? @ Plattsburgh

    Semifinals
    Norwich/Plattsburgh pod vs. Oswego pod
    Elmira pod vs. St. Norbert pod

    ?? are: NESCAC and one more Pool C

    anyone got something better??
    And if everyone holds serve, the national semifinals are barn burners
    Last edited by joecct; 03-03-2011 at 05:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Quote Originally Posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post
    So, if this format did occur, I would actually be in favor of continuing the 500 mile rule, at least in the east.
    Nate,

    Great hypothetical situation. I guess after reading all that I have decided that I just don't agree with the 500 mile rule. I think that an eastern team is an eastern team and a western team is a western team. I understand that the NCAA will never agree, but bracket integrity should be above travel costs, IMO.

  8. #8
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Quote Originally Posted by AldenPartridge1819 View Post
    Nate,

    Great hypothetical situation. I guess after reading all that I have decided that I just don't agree with the 500 mile rule. I think that an eastern team is an eastern team and a western team is a western team. I understand that the NCAA will never agree, but bracket integrity should be above travel costs, IMO.
    Problem is that the NCAA doesn't care about anything except costs in DIII championships. To a certain extent, I don't really care either, because you either win or you don't. You should be better than everyone else to win the tournament. eom
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  9. #9
    Larry Normandin norm1909's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Quote Originally Posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post
    ...Under your system, we have the following teams travelling:

    To Curry:
    Plattsburgh (255mi)
    Oswego (348 mi)
    Elmira (365mi)

    To Fredonia
    USM (597mi)
    Colby (674mi)
    Salem (546mi)

    In particular, sending USM and Colby to Fredonia would be absolutely ridiculous in place of sending Colby TO Maine. Now, if we enforced a 500mile rule, which I acknowledge is a bit complicated in the West, we would end up just switching the host sites (USM, Colby, Salem to Curry, and Platty, Oz, and Elmira to Fredonia). Yes, this would increase the travel length of Plattsburgh, but would eliminate flight and decrease travel length for the other 5 significantly.

    So, if this format did occur, I would actually be in favor of continuing the 500 mile rule, at least in the east.
    What if the East Tournament (second weekend) was to be held in permanent location, such as Utica or Lake Placid, I don't have time to find the mileage, but that might reduce the potential for the 500-mile rule to have an impact.
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  10. #10
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Problem is that the NCAA doesn't care about anything except costs in DIII championships. To a certain extent, I don't really care either, because you either win or you don't. You should be better than everyone else to win the tournament. eom
    You can be better and not win.


    If you have to win 3 games and have a 90% chance to win the first 3, and another team has a 60% chance to win their first 3 (assuming each team is equal and has a 50/50 chance to beat each other), team A will make and win more final games than team B. That doesn't mean that team A is better than team B though.

    Of course if we can all just agree that winning the title doesn't automatically make someone "the best team that year", then it's all moot

  11. #11
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Quote Originally Posted by one_to7 View Post
    You can be better and not win.


    If you have to win 3 games and have a 90% chance to win the first 3, and another team has a 60% chance to win their first 3 (assuming each team is equal and has a 50/50 chance to beat each other), team A will make and win more final games than team B. That doesn't mean that team A is better than team B though.

    Of course if we can all just agree that winning the title doesn't automatically make someone "the best team that year", then it's all moot
    I agree that a series is a much better way to do things. I just don't agree with those who say we would have won if we hadn't had to play so and so - that means that you don't think your team is worthy or winning a championship. The way to win is to beat whoever you have to play eom.
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  12. #12
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Under your plan the west's 24 teams are given an equal standing as the 49 East teams,
    just does not seem "fair"

    It makes a west team's road a lot easier (no 2 game weekend)

    Now if the east was split into two regions and the final four rotated between the three regions
    Each region would hold its own tournament, sending 1 team.
    Plus an at large team from the hosting region (a little like the NFL's wild card) you'd have a final four with a built in attendance grabber of having 2 teams from the hosting region.
    Of course this is just out of the cereal box thinking

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  13. #13
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Quote Originally Posted by Irishdave View Post
    Under your plan the west's 24 teams are given an equal standing as the 49 East teams,
    just does not seem "fair"

    It makes a west team's road a lot easier (no 2 game weekend)

    Now if the east was split into two regions and the final four rotated between the three regions
    Each region would hold its own tournament, sending 1 team.
    Plus an at large team from the hosting region (a little like the NFL's wild card) you'd have a final four with a built in attendance grabber of having 2 teams from the hosting region.
    Of course this is just out of the cereal box thinking
    Makes sense... kind of like Major Junior Hockey in Canada. Although, I would have the non-region particpants send their champions and the region participants send the winners of the semi-finals.
    Last edited by berbs91; 03-05-2011 at 08:25 AM.

  14. #14
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    I like the idea of three regions with the hosting region sending two.

    It would be hard to separate the east into two regions without serious realignment however.

  15. #15
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    Re: NCAA Tourney Format

    Some time ago someone posted either a chart showing mileage or an online calculator, from the NCAA site anyone have the link?


    EDIT Found it
    https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/TES/exec/miles



    Last edited by Irishdave; 03-06-2011 at 12:18 AM. Reason: found it

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