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Thread: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

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    A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Since it seems the world has been over run by the forces of PC, I offer a new proposal for all those Universities and other schools who ignore the majority wishes of their fan base, current students, alumni, etc and instead listed to the voice of the vocal minority who lay their woes at the feet of America’s institutions of higher learning.

    When a school declares that a slogan, mascot, nickname, etc will no longer be used because it isn't PC and must be eliminated for the common good, that entity immediately becomes public domain*. From that day forward the school forfeits all copyrights, trademarks, etc related to it and is not entitled to any royalties from its use and must make public all graphics, fonts, and other materials related to such items. Thus the entity becomes public property and anyone who chooses can use it in any manner that they see fit. Maybe they could use it for their own sports team, personal business slogan, or simply for personal financial gain (printing T-shirts, stickers, banners, etc.) in the realm of sports marketing.
    * The one exception being, those that caused the entity to become public domain shall be banned from any use of such items.

    Of course the schools could not possibly object to this proposal because who would buy such items anyway? Clearly the institution is only doing what the majority of their fans want, so demand for such items would be so minimal that the royalties would not be worth anything, right?

    …And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!

    Ryan J

    Graduate of a school district who is about to loose their “Indians” mascot because one person, who never attend the school district (and as far as anyone can tell has never even visited the school district) filed a law suit (which can not be contested due to state law) that they were “offended” by the mascot.
    Last edited by JohnsonsJerseys; 02-15-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Ever try cooking polish sausage in a salsa sauce? Ohh, yum!



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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
    Since it seems the world has been over run by the forces of PC
    I knew we shouldn't have kicked them out of HOCKEY RAST. You cut them loose and next thing you know they're overrunning the world.
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    How much of this is suggestion and how much is how it actually works? Is it public domain once the school abandons it?
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Students and alumni at DU can use Boone as they choose but the school will not officially endorse him as the school mascot or provide any funding. The link below provides the transcript of the e-mail sent by the Chancellor to DU students in October 2008. This is the direct quote from the e-mail.

    Opinion on campus concerning this matter is now quite polarized, and a resolution is needed. We need to move on. Consequently, I have decided that Boone will not become the official mascot of the University. While I certainly appreciate the genuine enthusiasm behind the "bring back Boone" movement, the University simply cannot adopt an official mascot that has a divisive rather than unifying influence on our community. The image will not be used in any official manner by the University, nor will we provide financial support for its use by others. That being said, Boone is a part of our history, one that is treasured by many alumni and friends as a symbol of the University they knew three and four decades ago, and we are certainly an institution that honors its past. Hence it seems reasonable that students and alumni be allowed to use the image as a celebration of that past, to the extent that they may choose.

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Well, it looks like some people in North Dakota are not going to let the nickname issue go away without another fight. I doubt this will pass, but would love to see it happen.

    From today's GF Herald:

    BISMARCK – The North Dakota House will decide next week whether the University of North Dakota nickname debate should continue.

    The House Education Committee gave a do-pass recommendation on Wednesday to a bill supporting the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

    House Bill 1263 states UND athletic teams shall be known as the Fighting Sioux. Neither UND nor the state Board of Higher Education may take action to discontinue the use of the nickname or logo.

    It requires the attorney general to consider filing a federal anti-trust claim against the NCAA if the association takes any action to penalize UND for using the nickname and logo.

    The bill is sponsored by House Majority Leader Al Carlson of Fargo and received a 10-5 favorable vote. The other two nickname bills received do-not-pass recommendations.

    All of the nickname bills still need to go to the House floor for final votes. Carlson said this could happen as early as Monday, but Tuesday is more likely.

    If one or more are approved, the state Senate will then take up the issue.

    Wednesday’s recommendations come three weeks after the committee listened to several hours’ worth of testimony from nickname supporters and opponents.

    During the committee discussion, Rep. Phil Mueller, D-Valley City, said he’s never had a problem with the Fighting Sioux nickname, but he would not support the bill.

    He said the state Board of Higher Education and UND concluded it’s time to move on.

    “I guess I’m of common mind with them about that. This isn’t going to go away,” Mueller said. “I don’t think that the Standing Rock people are going to decide this is all fine and the NCAA is going to be happy.”

    The NCAA has deemed the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo “hostile and abusive.” Opponents say the nickname and logo have contributed to an atmosphere where racist and abusive incidents occurred.

    Rep. David Rust, R-Tioga, reviewed numbers of Native American students at the state’s colleges. He said UND has higher numbers than other campuses, and he didn’t think this would be so if the campus was unfriendly and unsafe.

    Rep. RaeAnn Kelsch, R-Mandan, said it bothered her that the state Board of Higher Education took a neutral stance on the nickname bills.

    If the board is confident in its decision to move on and believes it was fully transparent and explored every angle, representatives should have testified in opposition, she said.

    “If you truly believe what you did was right and you truly believe that the decision was the way it should have been, then man up and come in and testify against it. But that didn’t happen,” she said.

    Rep. Corey Mock, D-Grand Forks, said he has no problem with turning over every stone to exhaust all of the options. However, he said no other school in the state has its nickname and logo in state law.

    “More importantly, there’s no other nickname or logo that has the repercussions that this bill has on its student-athletes,” he said.

    UND has decided to move on, and the bill takes away local control, he said. Mock said he couldn’t support the bill due to the impact it would have on students.

    Rep. Mike Schatz, R-New England, said the state of North Dakota takes priority over an association.

    “What we decide as the state of North Dakota about this issue is what it’s going to be,” he said. “I’m very much in favor of this bill.”

    Mock tried to amend one of the other Fighting Sioux bills that discussed permission from the tribes, but he did not get the votes to do so.

    Here is the vote breakdown on the bill that passed:

    YAY: Kelsch; Rep. Lisa Meier, R-Bismarck; Rep. Joe Heilman, R-Fargo; Rep. Brenda Heller, R-Beulah; Rep. Dennis Johnson, R-Devils Lake; Rep. Karen Karls, R-Bismarck; Rep. Karen Rohr, R-Mandan; Rust; Schatz; Rep. Lyle Hanson, D-Jamestown.

    NAY: Rep. Mark Sanford, R-Grand Forks; Rep. John Wall, R-Wahpeton; Rep. Bob Hunskor, D-Newburg; Mock; Mueller.
    Believe it. Earn it. Raise it.

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Siouxfaninseattle View Post
    Well, it looks like some people in North Dakota are not going to let the nickname issue go away without another fight. I doubt this will pass, but would love to see it happen.

    From today's GF Herald:

    BISMARCK – The North Dakota House will decide next week whether the University of North Dakota nickname debate should continue.

    The House Education Committee gave a do-pass recommendation on Wednesday to a bill supporting the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

    House Bill 1263 states UND athletic teams shall be known as the Fighting Sioux. Neither UND nor the state Board of Higher Education may take action to discontinue the use of the nickname or logo.

    It requires the attorney general to consider filing a federal anti-trust claim against the NCAA if the association takes any action to penalize UND for using the nickname and logo.

    The bill is sponsored by House Majority Leader Al Carlson of Fargo and received a 10-5 favorable vote. The other two nickname bills received do-not-pass recommendations.

    All of the nickname bills still need to go to the House floor for final votes. Carlson said this could happen as early as Monday, but Tuesday is more likely.

    If one or more are approved, the state Senate will then take up the issue.

    Wednesday’s recommendations come three weeks after the committee listened to several hours’ worth of testimony from nickname supporters and opponents.

    During the committee discussion, Rep. Phil Mueller, D-Valley City, said he’s never had a problem with the Fighting Sioux nickname, but he would not support the bill.

    He said the state Board of Higher Education and UND concluded it’s time to move on.

    “I guess I’m of common mind with them about that. This isn’t going to go away,” Mueller said. “I don’t think that the Standing Rock people are going to decide this is all fine and the NCAA is going to be happy.”

    The NCAA has deemed the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo “hostile and abusive.” Opponents say the nickname and logo have contributed to an atmosphere where racist and abusive incidents occurred.

    Rep. David Rust, R-Tioga, reviewed numbers of Native American students at the state’s colleges. He said UND has higher numbers than other campuses, and he didn’t think this would be so if the campus was unfriendly and unsafe.

    Rep. RaeAnn Kelsch, R-Mandan, said it bothered her that the state Board of Higher Education took a neutral stance on the nickname bills.

    If the board is confident in its decision to move on and believes it was fully transparent and explored every angle, representatives should have testified in opposition, she said.

    “If you truly believe what you did was right and you truly believe that the decision was the way it should have been, then man up and come in and testify against it. But that didn’t happen,” she said.

    Rep. Corey Mock, D-Grand Forks, said he has no problem with turning over every stone to exhaust all of the options. However, he said no other school in the state has its nickname and logo in state law.

    “More importantly, there’s no other nickname or logo that has the repercussions that this bill has on its student-athletes,” he said.

    UND has decided to move on, and the bill takes away local control, he said. Mock said he couldn’t support the bill due to the impact it would have on students.

    Rep. Mike Schatz, R-New England, said the state of North Dakota takes priority over an association.

    “What we decide as the state of North Dakota about this issue is what it’s going to be,” he said. “I’m very much in favor of this bill.”

    Mock tried to amend one of the other Fighting Sioux bills that discussed permission from the tribes, but he did not get the votes to do so.

    Here is the vote breakdown on the bill that passed:

    YAY: Kelsch; Rep. Lisa Meier, R-Bismarck; Rep. Joe Heilman, R-Fargo; Rep. Brenda Heller, R-Beulah; Rep. Dennis Johnson, R-Devils Lake; Rep. Karen Karls, R-Bismarck; Rep. Karen Rohr, R-Mandan; Rust; Schatz; Rep. Lyle Hanson, D-Jamestown.

    NAY: Rep. Mark Sanford, R-Grand Forks; Rep. John Wall, R-Wahpeton; Rep. Bob Hunskor, D-Newburg; Mock; Mueller.
    Haha. So the Bill is created by a guy from Fargo, and Nayed by a guy representing Grand Forks?

    Just let it go already.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biddco View Post
    Haha. So the Bill is created by a guy from Fargo, and Nayed by a guy representing Grand Forks?

    Just let it go already.
    Over?

    Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? Hell no!!

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    If North Dakota were for some reason adopt "The Lady Ga-Ga's" as their nickname they would be stopped in a flash. Same goes if they were to call themselves "The Fighting U.S. Marines." What in blazes besides bigotry makes any person or group think they can use the name of another person or group to identify themselves and turn a profit?

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Boone's not lost. Here's a photo of Boone on Center Court of the DU basketball game last Thursday night.

    Video Link

    These schools are finding it very difficult to go against the will of the alumni and the students. You just have to keep playing the game until a major donor comes along and says, "Here's the cash for a new building and BTW the mascot/logo stays."

    *******https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jUuROmnD1rI/TVlS-rr_bfI/AAAAAAAAKNw/0aTF0aXdcLk/s400/Dancing%2BBoone.jpg********
    Last edited by dggoddard; 02-17-2011 at 11:19 AM.

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osorojo View Post
    If North Dakota were for some reason adopt "The Lady Ga-Ga's" as their nickname they would be stopped in a flash. Same goes if they were to call themselves "The Fighting U.S. Marines." What in blazes besides bigotry makes any person or group think they can use the name of another person or group to identify themselves and turn a profit?
    Ask the New England Patriots. Or Seattle Mariners. Or Montreal Canadiens. You really suck at trolling, me boi.
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osorojo View Post
    If North Dakota were for some reason adopt "The Lady Ga-Ga's" as their nickname they would be stopped in a flash. Same goes if they were to call themselves "The Fighting U.S. Marines." What in blazes besides bigotry makes any person or group think they can use the name of another person or group to identify themselves and turn a profit?
    Washington Redskins
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    Boston Celtics
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    Cleveland Indians
    Kansas City Chiefs
    Minnesota Vikings
    Chicago Blackhawks
    Montreal Canadiens
    Vancouver Canucks
    Utah Utes
    Hawai'i Wahine
    Notre Dame Fighting Irish
    Cleveland State Vikings
    San Diego State Aztecs
    Army Black Knights
    Union Dutchmen
    Penn Quakers

    This is, obviously, just a partial list.
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osorojo View Post
    If North Dakota were for some reason adopt "The Lady Ga-Ga's" as their nickname they would be stopped in a flash. Same goes if they were to call themselves "The Fighting U.S. Marines." What in blazes besides bigotry makes any person or group think they can use the name of another person or group to identify themselves and turn a profit?
    Is your name actually Red Bear? You are using a group of colored animals as your handle. What's wrong with brown or black bears? You Racist!
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osorojo View Post
    If North Dakota were for some reason adopt "The Lady Ga-Ga's" as their nickname they would be stopped in a flash. Same goes if they were to call themselves "The Fighting U.S. Marines." What in blazes besides bigotry makes any person or group think they can use the name of another person or group to identify themselves and turn a profit?
    Dallas Cowboys fans are bigots?

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by dggoddard View Post
    Dallas Cowboys fans are bigots?
    Yes, but not for that reason.

    I'm sure all of the Yankees in Mass aren't thrilled with a New York team profiting from their people.
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Knights, Utes, Cowboys, Bozos, Mariners, Canadiens, Dimwits, Yankees, Irish, even Redskins - all are collective, non specific nouns and the law deems members or wanna-be members of such groups are not harmed by misuse or profitable use of these names. To belabor the obvious: you can call your outfit "The Fighting Warriors" or "The Fighting Soldiers," but you can't call them "The Fighting U.S. Marines" no matter how much money an alum donates.
    "Sioux" and "Seminole" are two specific nouns which denote specific, discrete groups of people with common social, tribal and economic interests. Unauthorized public use of their names would seem to constitute identity theft. Sports fans are assuredly tribal in nature, but let them create their own identities and totems rather than pirate and rely upon the reputations of others.

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osorojo View Post
    Knights, Utes, Cowboys, Bozos, Mariners, Canadiens, Dimwits, Yankees, Irish, even Redskins - all are collective, non specific nouns and the law deems members or wanna-be members of such groups are not harmed by misuse or profitable use of these names. To belabor the obvious: you can call your outfit "The Fighting Warriors" or "The Fighting Soldiers," but you can't call them "The Fighting U.S. Marines" no matter how much money an alum donates.
    "Sioux" and "Seminole" are two specific nouns which denote specific, discrete groups of people with common social, tribal and economic interests. Unauthorized public use of their names would seem to constitute identity theft. Sports fans are assuredly tribal in nature, but let them create their own identities and totems rather than pirate and rely upon the reputations of others.
    Funny how a specific and discrete group is comprised of three, completely different tribes.
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Opening a credit card in the name Osorojo would be identity theft. Creating a username Osorojo_ and making dumbarse comments would be identity theft. Naming a sports team the Sioux or Seminoles is not identity theft.
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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    "Seminole" and "Sioux" denote groups legally recognized by United States law. The U.S. even has formal treaties with these groups (but not with "The Fighting Irish.") The posters above have a remarkably liberal attitude toward appropriating another group's LEGAL identity and using it as their own.
    Would these neo-liberals be as open minded if NAMABLA were to adopt the nickname "North Dakota State University Hockey Brawlers" and peddle clothing, curios and articles bearing this nickname and who-knows-what graphics?
    Last edited by Osorojo; 02-17-2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason: spacing

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    Re: A Solution for the "Fighting" Sioux, Denver's Boone, and Other "Lost" Mascots...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmrg74 View Post
    over?

    Was it over when ralph engelstad bombed pearl harbor?? Hell no!!
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