Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37

Thread: Maximum games per season in Div I?

  1. #1
    AUS & CIS Hockey Nut
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fredericton, NB
    Posts
    451

    Maximum games per season in Div I?

    I've been hunting all over to find the answer to what should be a simple question, but can't find an online source, even on NCAA.org, so hopefully the question won't be seen to be off topic here.

    What is the maximum number of games a Div I team can schedule and play in a season? Is it 34? Where is it written? I realize that years ago that Hockey East split off from the ECAC over the number of out of conference games, so is there different games maximums for each conferences, other than what the Ivy's impose on themselves? And what is the Ivy max?

    And yes, I realize games against CIS teams in Canada, US NDTP and international U20 teams don't count against the max. Am I missing anything else?
    "The great aim of education is not knowledge, but action." -- Herbert Spencer

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    48,064

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreddyFoyle View Post
    I've been hunting all over to find the answer to what should be a simple question, but can't find an online source, even on NCAA.org, so hopefully the question won't be seen to be off topic here.

    What is the maximum number of games a Div I team can schedule and play in a season? Is it 34? Where is it written? I realize that years ago that Hockey East split off from the ECAC over the number of out of conference games, so is there different games maximums for each conferences, other than what the Ivy's impose on themselves? And what is the Ivy max?

    And yes, I realize games against CIS teams in Canada, US NDTP and international U20 teams don't count against the max. Am I missing anything else?
    The general maximum is 34, I do not know where this is written.

    The ivy league max is 29, and they are required to start about a month later than the rest of the country. Therefore the ECAC non-ivies have 12 OOC games, as opposed to the 6-8 the rest of the country has, because there are only 22 in-conference games (for the ECAC at least; the other leagues have 27 or 28 in conference games).

    There's also the exemption for playing an Alaska team in Alaska, as well as the icebreaker.
    Last edited by FlagDUDE08; 12-21-2010 at 02:51 PM.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Long Winded Posts That Go Nowhere (TM)
    Posts
    68,798

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    There's also the exemption for playing an Alaska team in Alaska, as well as the icebreaker.
    Princeton (?) toured Europe a few years ago and IIRC those games were exempt too.
    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    48,064

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Princeton (?) toured Europe a few years ago and IIRC those games were exempt too.
    Were they playing NCAA or European teams? If they were playing European teams, they were likely exhibition games, which are not counted towards the limit.

    RPI played UVM two years ago at the Pavilion de la Jeunesse in Quebec, I don't know how the rules work out for that game.

  5. #5
    AUS & CIS Hockey Nut
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fredericton, NB
    Posts
    451

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Thanks. I consider myself a half decent amateur researcher and was facing the prospect of having to contact the NCAA (isn't that like asking for directions while driving?) directly.

    The rules are simpler and defined in the CIS conferences. All teams play 28 conference games. Everything else, such as OOC are exhibition games and don't count in the stats. I believe the conferences all allow unlimited exhibition games if you can find the time and money to schedule them. UNB has probably the most ambitious exhibition schedule in the CIS with 11 games this season, including hosting Providence on January 1st and 2nd.

    If their scheduled game against AHL's Portland hadn't fallen through this fall they would have hit the magic number of 40 games played this season before playoffs.
    Last edited by FreddyFoyle; 12-21-2010 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Added Portland bit
    "The great aim of education is not knowledge, but action." -- Herbert Spencer

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    48,064

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreddyFoyle View Post
    Thanks. I consider myself a half decent amateur researcher and was facing the prospect of having to contact the NCAA (isn't that like asking for directions while driving?) directly.

    The rules are simpler and defined in the CIS conferences. All teams play 28 conference games. Everything else, such as OOC are exhibition games and don't count in the stats. I believe the conferences all allow unlimited exhibition games if you can find the time and money to schedule them. UNB has probably the most ambitious exhibition schedule in the CIS with 11 games this season, including hosting Providence on January 1st and 2nd.

    If their scheduled game against AHL's Portland hadn't fallen through this fall they would have hit the magic number of 40 games played this season before playoffs.
    Here's a question, though: Do all of your conferences have the same number of teams? In the NCAA, they don't. In fact, while the CHA was around, each of the teams would play each other 4 times, and then the rest was non-conference, meaning they had an average of about 16 in-conference games (depending on how many teams were in at the time). Also, Hockey East has 10, CCHA has 11, ECAC has 12 (6 ivy, 6 non-ivy), WCHA and Atlantic now with 12. Let's also add some travel considerations in. If Hockey East was up to 12 teams, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to go with a schedule similar to ECAC non-ivies, where they have 12 OOC games. However, the western leagues have to travel a lot more, so they do weekend series (as opposed to travel partners like is done in the ECAC), and typically OOC opponents (especially the eastern ones) must travel to them, obviously with some exception of 2-3 year series where they'll play in one location one year, and then have a return trip to the other location the next year.

    I assume the ivy league rule is quite old and was grandfathered for all sports, although I'd defer further information on that to someone who actually supports an ivy league team.

  7. #7
    AUS & CIS Hockey Nut
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fredericton, NB
    Posts
    451

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    Here's a question, though: Do all of your conferences have the same number of teams?
    No.
    AUS has 8 teams. OUA East has 10 teams. OUA West has 9 teams. Canada West has 7 teams.
    Scheduling is easy in AUS - play everyone four times.
    OUA is tricky. It is a double-conference because they include the hockey schools from the province of Quebec (who have their own conference for other sports), plus they'be been adding the expansion teams. As I understand their schedule you play 25 to 26 games in your division in an unbalanced schedule, and the other 2 or 3 games in the other division.
    In Canada West you play everyone a minimum of 4 times (usually twice per weekend because of long travel) and then two of the teams twice more.

    As for exhibition games, all of the teams will play a few in-conference exhibition games in the preseason, and many will travel to the States one weekend to play NCAA teams, and there are a few preseason and holiday tournaments that teams travel out of conference for. As well, some teams if they can afford it will schedule out of conference exhibition road trips in the fall (UNB, UQTR) or at Christmas (McGill).
    Last edited by FreddyFoyle; 12-21-2010 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Added exhibition
    "The great aim of education is not knowledge, but action." -- Herbert Spencer

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Marquette, MI
    Posts
    6,712

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    There are 34 games allowed. Exemptions are granted for games in Alaska, the Hall of Fame game and the Ice Breaker. Wisconsin plays 2 at Alaska-Anchorage this year and played in the IceBreaker and will play 38 regular season games this year.
    "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

  9. #9
    AUS & CIS Hockey Nut
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fredericton, NB
    Posts
    451

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Until a few years ago the CIS used to be full of traditional divisions by geography. Thus the AUS had two divisions, the OUA four, and Canada West two. Just about everyone made the playoffs. Then the AUS combined the teams in one division, gave first round playoff byes to the top two teams and dropped the final two teams from playoffs. This has certainly enhanced the competitiveness of the AUS in my opinion. The OUA was experiencing growth, and unbalanced divisions on a competitive basis, so they reorganized in two divisions and basically forced the weaker teams to play more outside of their little division. This is still a work in progress. The weak sisters haven't been that more competitive, and have been overshadowed by the expansion teams. A couple of years ago Canada West followed the AUS model, only they drop the bottom 3 teams (out of 7 in the conference) from the playoffs. I thought this would make them more competitive, but some coaches out there tell me it is worse because you can feel you've been eliminated by Christmas if you have a slow start.

    Btw, if you are interested, here is last season's standings by conference in the CIS. Despite UNB's record season last year, they were upset in the AUS playoffs and Saint Mary's went on to win their first ever CIS hockey championship against Alberta.
    "The great aim of education is not knowledge, but action." -- Herbert Spencer

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Indialantic, FL
    Posts
    8,267

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    Were they playing NCAA or European teams? If they were playing European teams, they were likely exhibition games, which are not counted towards the limit.

    RPI played UVM two years ago at the Pavilion de la Jeunesse in Quebec, I don't know how the rules work out for that game.
    IIRC, there's an explicit NCAA rule relating to Euro tours - I believe schools are only allowed a certain number of games per trip, and only allowed to do one such trip per four years (so that each player nominally can only go once, except for red-shirts, etc).
    If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

  11. #11
    Ever True since '92
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Some New England rink or another
    Posts
    2,644

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    I assume the ivy league rule is quite old and was grandfathered for all sports, although I'd defer further information on that to someone who actually supports an ivy league team.
    Pretty much. The Ivy League has all these completely useless rules that end up being nothing more than hindrances. In particular, fans of Ivy League football have been outraged forever because the teams are not allowed to participate in the playoffs, even the champion, and each team is limited to just ten games. Because of this, and because there is no mini tournament within the league, nothing outside of conference play matters. So really, you play seven meaningful games a year, and most teams' seasons are effectively over by late October. The reason given for not wanting playoffs is that they would conflict with exams- but so do hockey games and basketball games played in December, as do the lacrosse playoffs in the spring (Cornell can tell you about this- I believe they had exams on the day of a NCAA Tournament game last season).

    While hockey's rules aren't quite so stupid, it still hurts our abilities to recruit good players when the Ivy teams only play 29 games a year, as opposed to the 34+ that almost everyone else does. Ivy basketball also has a limit on games played, and there is no league tournament at the conclusion of the season even though literally every other conference has one.

    I appreciate that we want to maintain the importance of academics by not granting athletic scholarships, but I simply do not understand the aforementioned rules which seem to do nothing but deem our league as irrelevant. Luckily, hockey has been able to maintain relevancy through the years, but the basketball and football programs have both collectively suffered.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,022

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    It would seem that the NCAA in their infinite wisdom would regulate OOC games. In terms of PWR playing more OOC games could provide an advantage. Being able to play 12 OOC as a non-ivy ECAC team would seem to be a boon for decent teams (I know it's the ECAC, but for illustration purposes) it would seem to be beneficial. Maybe not, maybe I'm not thinking clearly at 7:30 a.m. .....
    Quote Originally Posted by Hokydad View Post
    Maine will be better this year relative to rankings than BC will be this year

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    48,064

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarter7669 View Post
    It would seem that the NCAA in their infinite wisdom would regulate OOC games. In terms of PWR playing more OOC games could provide an advantage. Being able to play 12 OOC as a non-ivy ECAC team would seem to be a boon for decent teams (I know it's the ECAC, but for illustration purposes) it would seem to be beneficial. Maybe not, maybe I'm not thinking clearly at 7:30 a.m. .....
    In our current OOC economy, having such an imbalance isn't necessarily a good thing, as we do find ourselves playing each other to fill the gaps. Granted Clarkson and SLU will almost always play at least one OOC game at a neutral site, RPI and Union started doing this recently as "a tune-up for league play", but something like the Governor's Cup was almost always ECAC non-ivies (except the final year when Robert Morris played; Clarkson was SUPPOSED to play but didn't). I can't remember what the CHA teams did when they had 18 NC games.

    BTW jcarter, remember your team's situation 6 years ago.

  14. #14
    Yeah, science!
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    17T KG 7395 8308
    Posts
    2,256

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    If you really want to see the online source, it is in Bylaw 17.12.5.3 (pages 273-274) in the NCAA Division I Manual: https://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...loads/D111.pdf.

    The game limit is 34. The following games do not count against the 34-game limit, but do count in official NCAA Statistics and Records--
    * Hockey Hall of Fame Game--a single fundraising game conducted every year
    * Ice Breaker Tournament--a single 4-team, 2-game tournament conducted every year
    * Any game played in Hawaii or Alaska--only by a school from outside those states against a school inside that state
    * Conference championship tournament
    * NCAA tournament

    Also not counting against the 34-game limit, and not counting in NCAA statistics--
    * Home game against a foreign team, such as a Canadian University or a foreign national team--limit one
    * One away tour against foreign teams--limit one tour every four years.
    * US National Teams--a single game per year against any US National Team (e.g., Olympic Team, World Junior Team, Under-18 Development Team, etc.)
    * "Alumni game" (exhibition of current players vs alumni of the school)--limit one
    * Certain other charity game activities are also permitted, but generally may not involve the entire team.

    Typically, a team will play about 34-38 regular-season games plus 1-2 exhibitions. Teams rarely play more than 8-10 playoff games, so I would be surprised if any team has managed to play 50 games in a season (counting exhibitions) since the basic limit was lowered from 38 to 34.

    "The game of hockey, though much in vogue on the ice in New England and other parts of the United States, is not much known here."

    --The Montreal Gazette, March 4, 1875.

  15. #15
    The one you hate to love
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Becker County, MN
    Posts
    2,717

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alton View Post
    If you really want to see the online source, it is in Bylaw 17.12.5.3 (pages 273-274) in the NCAA Division I Manual: https://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...loads/D111.pdf.

    The game limit is 34. The following games do not count against the 34-game limit, but do count in official NCAA Statistics and Records--
    * Hockey Hall of Fame Game--a single fundraising game conducted every year
    * Ice Breaker Tournament--a single 4-team, 2-game tournament conducted every year
    * Any game played in Hawaii or Alaska--only by a school from outside those states against a school inside that state
    * Conference championship tournament
    * NCAA tournament

    Also not counting against the 34-game limit, and not counting in NCAA statistics--
    * Home game against a foreign team, such as a Canadian University or a foreign national team--limit one
    * One away tour against foreign teams--limit one tour every four years.
    * US National Teams--a single game per year against any US National Team (e.g., Olympic Team, World Junior Team, Under-18 Development Team, etc.)
    * "Alumni game" (exhibition of current players vs alumni of the school)--limit one
    * Certain other charity game activities are also permitted, but generally may not involve the entire team.

    Typically, a team will play about 34-38 regular-season games plus 1-2 exhibitions. Teams rarely play more than 8-10 playoff games, so I would be surprised if any team has managed to play 50 games in a season (counting exhibitions) since the basic limit was lowered from 38 to 34.
    The Hell Ya Say... Hawaii huh... Well WHEN the BTHC comes about I am more than for a nice Hawaiian vacation for Minnesota, No Dak, Sconi, and Hawaii if they had a team around Christmas time :P
    - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. -

    Go Bemidji Beavers
    Go you Green and White
    Go Bemidji Beavers
    Fight with all your might!
    Rah! Rah! Rah!
    We are here to cheer you
    We are out to win your fame,
    So, Go Bemidji Beavers
    Fight to win this game.-Fight.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    48,064

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by GopherBigGuy911 View Post
    The Hell Ya Say... Hawaii huh... Well WHEN the BTHC comes about I am more than for a nice Hawaiian vacation for Minnesota, No Dak, Sconi, and Hawaii if they had a team around Christmas time :P
    Dirty's more likely to get his AIC jersey.

    I didn't know the Hockey East schism was because of number of games... I guess I could see that if only western teams would count towards non-conference (and the MAAC is, well, the MAAC).

  17. #17
    All hail, all hail to thee! ClOuD 9's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    "New Hampshire, strong and free"
    Posts
    4,880

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    I didn't know the Hockey East schism was because of number of games...
    In addition to the rumored split of the Ivy League schools from the ECAC. The ECAC went to three divisions in '79: Ivy (self-explanatory), West (Clarkson, 'Gate, RPI, SLU, UVM), and East (BC, BU, Maine, UNH, NU, PC) - the West having one less team probably didn't help the scheduling issues either. Interestingly, while BC, BU, UNH, NU and PC all left in June, the University of Maine waited until the fall to depart - is it too late to give them back?

    I'd be interested to read more on this if anyone could provide some links as this was all before my time.
    Last edited by ClOuD 9; 12-22-2010 at 06:32 PM.
    "...On To Victory, Forever Blue & White..."
    Men's Hockey

    ECAC Regular Season: 1 ECAC Tournament: 1 Hockey East Regular Season: 8 Hockey East Tournament: 2
    NCAA Appearances: 22 Frozen Fours: 7 1999 & 2003 NCAA Runner Up

    Women's Hockey
    EAIAW Champions: 4 ECAC Regular Season: 3 ECAC Tournament: 5 Hockey East Regular Season: 6 Hockey East Tournament: 4
    AWCHA Final Fours: 2 NCAA Appearances: 5 Frozen Fours: 2 1999 Runner Up
    1998 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

  18. #18
    Registered User Happy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    7,409

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarter7669 View Post
    It would seem that the NCAA in their infinite wisdom would regulate OOC games. In terms of PWR playing more OOC games could provide an advantage. Being able to play 12 OOC as a non-ivy ECAC team would seem to be a boon for decent teams (I know it's the ECAC, but for illustration purposes) it would seem to be beneficial. Maybe not, maybe I'm not thinking clearly at 7:30 a.m. .....
    There is no reason for the NCAA to get involved with scheduling. bad idea. They would screw it up way beyond any reasonable plan you had.
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX


    The reason for the talent in the west? Because MN didn't rely on Canada.

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Pond Hockey View Post
    Menards could have sold a lot of rope

    this morning in Grand Forks if North Dakota had trees.

  19. #19
    AUS & CIS Hockey Nut
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fredericton, NB
    Posts
    451

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    Thanks Alton ... that's exactly the kind of documentation I was looking for, but couldn't find.
    "The great aim of education is not knowledge, but action." -- Herbert Spencer

  20. #20
    All hail, all hail to thee! ClOuD 9's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    "New Hampshire, strong and free"
    Posts
    4,880

    Re: Maximum games per season in Div I?

    More on the ECAC-Hockey East split:
    The original split came over the issue of athletic scholarships, which Hockey East teams grant and most Eastern College Athletic Conference schools do not, and academic standards, with the influential Ivy League academic deans recommending a divorce.
    COLLEGE HOCKEY; Unification Considered by Two Leagues The New York Times - November 09, 1988
    "...On To Victory, Forever Blue & White..."
    Men's Hockey

    ECAC Regular Season: 1 ECAC Tournament: 1 Hockey East Regular Season: 8 Hockey East Tournament: 2
    NCAA Appearances: 22 Frozen Fours: 7 1999 & 2003 NCAA Runner Up

    Women's Hockey
    EAIAW Champions: 4 ECAC Regular Season: 3 ECAC Tournament: 5 Hockey East Regular Season: 6 Hockey East Tournament: 4
    AWCHA Final Fours: 2 NCAA Appearances: 5 Frozen Fours: 2 1999 Runner Up
    1998 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •