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  • #46
    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    So Centrists win because of of the big bad Plutocracy. The voters dont think for themselves and they surely dont actually like the candidates they just do as they are told? When have the Dems ever done as they are told? If they did that they would never lose.

    You ever think the the Far Left loses because the majority just dont agree with us on everything?
    The Far Left will never win immediately. I and everybody else on the Far Left understand and accept that. We know it is too steep a hill to climb, too many books to read, and too much horror to absorb for the vast majority. (The only way we could win quickly is if there is widespread civil disorder and that's where I part company with the Revolutionary Left. I don't believe in revolutions because IMO the history of revolutions is that the weak pay with their lives and in the end only trade masters. Evolution, not revolution.)

    So we take our victories by staking out optimal policies and then moving on to the next struggle. Eventually, the Moderates catch up with the Liberals of 50 years before, and promote their polices in order to stave off those scary, scary Socialists. So we do get our policies... we just need to be patient.

    But here we're talking about why the Left has trouble even in these times when the Right's moral bankruptcy is so obvious. As for that, it is a certainty that the very first thing a concentration of wealth does is corrupt and capture all institutions that could threaten that concentration of wealth. I hope you don't doubt that -- it's the history of the world. It has nothing to do with capitalism, it's just how the powerful pummel the powerless for fun and profit.
    Last edited by Kepler; 12-16-2019, 03:52 PM.
    Cornell University
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    • #47
      Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

      Originally posted by Rover View Post
      We need not have a knife fight to see if Handy or Kep is right about "Centrists" vs "Libs" (although that would be kinda fun). That's what the primary is for. If Bernie is where the party is, he'll be the nominee, Debbie Wasserman Schultz be ****ed!!!!
      We shouldnt need to fight, he and I agree on the issues. Where we dont agree is on his (and the trix's of the world) ignoring of the fact that not everyone to the Left of the GOP Nazi Brigade is either a Nazi or a Progressive and we need them to defeat Trump. The goal is always the same.

      edit: and apparently he sucks at quoting
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
      -INCH

      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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      • #48
        Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        So your big beef is they will try and fail as opposed to say Warren or Bernie who wont try but will still fail? Cool story. What exactly do you want and tell me who can accomplish it.

        And again if the people want the President to work with the other side shouldnt the President do that? Isnt that THEIR FRIGGIN JOB!?!? I am not saying I want them too but if Biden wins shouldnt he do what was part of what got him elected? Or should he just do what Trump does and ignore the will of the people?

        Your obsession with the media is what is rotting your brain.
        No, it's not my obsession with the media. It's how many times the House and Amy Klobuchar have put together a bipartisan election security bill that just sits there and collects dust.

        Put it this way. For a Center Dem to be effective he also has to have a Center Republican to work with. That is how things used to work and have worked. What upsets me is the right has been way more successful getting their "partisan" agendas passed than the Democrats. And the reason I see that that is the case is because the Dems (Obama) always want to compromise with the other side while the other side just does not give a ****.

        Just imagine how different the world would have been if the Russia Story had been "leaked" by Obama instead of him bending over taking the Turtle right up the backside??
        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

        Comment

        • #49
          Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
          No, it's not my obsession with the media. It's how many times the House and Amy Klobuchar have put together a bipartisan election security bill that just sits there and collects dust.

          Put it this way. For a Center Dem to be effective he also has to have a Center Republican to work with. That is how things used to work and have worked. What upsets me is the right has been way more successful getting their "partisan" agendas passed than the Democrats. And the reason I see that that is the case is because the Dems (Obama) always want to compromise with the other side while the other side just does not give a ****.

          Just imagine how different the world would have been if the Russia Story had been "leaked" by Obama instead of him bending over taking the Turtle right up the backside??
          Yeah I think we all get that. You didnt answer the question. What do you want and who do you think will get it for you?
          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
          -aparch

          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
          -INCH

          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

          Comment

          • #50
            Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

            Originally posted by Handyman View Post
            Yeah I think we all get that. You didnt answer the question. What do you want and who do you think will get it for you?
            I want to see a progressive get elected. It hasn't happened since FDR. I think it's time.
            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

            Comment

            • #51
              Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
              I want to see a progressive get elected. It hasn't happened since FDR. I think it's time.
              If the ideology of your choice has been losing elections since 1944, you don't think maybe its you that might be the problem?
              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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              • #52
                Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                If the ideology of your choice has been losing elections since 1944, you don't think maybe its you that might be the problem?
                Considering what FDR accomplished and what Reagan accomplished I think my choice is apt.
                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                Comment

                • #53
                  Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                  Originally posted by Rover View Post
                  If the ideology of your choice has been losing elections since 1944, you don't think maybe its you that might be the problem?
                  Our ideology dominated politics in this country for 4 decades. The 4 best decades of American history.

                  We win when we are needed. We're America's antibodies. When we have set the correct course we can turn it over to the time-servers and the businessmen and the other drones to take the credit. See? You do have a role in this!
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                  • #54
                    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                    Gore, Kerry, Hillary were progressives? Are we thinking of the same people?

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                      Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
                      Gore, Kerry, Hillary were progressives? Are we thinking of the same people?
                      I thought Gore and Kerry certainly were. Obama ran as one.
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
College Hockey 6       College Football 0
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                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                        I thought Gore and Kerry certainly were. Obama ran as one.
                        Other than climate I didn’t think of gore as progressive. I also didnot think Kerry was but I could be remembering incorrectly

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                        • #57
                          Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                          I thought Gore and Kerry certainly were. Obama ran as one.
                          Gore was famously a co-founder (with Clinton) of the DLC, the center-right pragmatist group within the Democratic party that advocated cutting liberal programs and running to the right of the traditional Democratic base. He was not a liberal.

                          Kerry, like Dukakis, was a technocrat, neither left nor right. He believed in the power of mathematically-informed consensus to solve problems, like JFK. Those folks are considered pragmatists and outside the traditional liberal-conservative division.

                          There were not many prominent liberals in the Dem mainstream between Ted Kennedy and Bernie Sanders. Howard Dean is one. Dennis Kucinich. Mark Green. Maybe Ron Wyden but he was again more of a technocrat.
                          Last edited by Kepler; 12-16-2019, 05:18 PM.
                          Cornell University
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                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • #58
                            Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                            I thought Gore and Kerry certainly were. Obama ran as one.
                            Kerry had no ideas that were his own. Gore not a chance. He was Progressive about Climate Change but he was hardly some Leftist in most cases. Lets not forget his wife Tipper was big into censoring music.

                            Obama was one against Hillary but then ran to the center when he took office. Made sense he wanted to bring back the old version of Washington...problem is Old Washington hates Darkies.

                            Scooby,

                            I would love a Progressive to win, but I also dont think they will get much done if Mitch still controls the Senate. I wont lie though part of me wants someone super crazy to win because it would troll the hell out of the Racist Brigade. Have them just be the Liberal Trump being mean to the GOP and obstructionist and doing EOs to give people what the want and need. Watch their heads explode. In reality I dont think that can happen but a boy can dream
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              Kerry had no ideas that were his own.
                              Meh. He did, but not across the whole spectrum. He was pretty good on climate and he was an outstanding SOS. He just didn't know the first godd-mn thing about jobs or trade and that's a pretty serious deficiency in a 21st century President.

                              Kerry was Romney with more brains and even less of a popular touch. Still, he's the only major presidential candidate who could skate.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • #60
                                Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

                                Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
                                Gore, Kerry, Hillary were progressives? Are we thinking of the same people?
                                Nope. None of those three were progressives. They were all going to be effective tourniquets on the gaping wound that Reagan created. Instead we decided we liked to bleed.
                                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                                Comment

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