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Thread: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

  1. #261
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Few people actually believe in trickle down economics anymore. The poors aren't voting GOP because they think they'll get some benefit from billionaire tax cuts. They're voting GOP on racial issues.

    Regarding Kep's comment about crafting policies to appeal to conservatives, sadly 40 years ago and for a decade or so afterwards the majority of people actually believed that sh it, not 33%. They might still believe it had Clinton not crushed that notion both in his 1992 campaign and his subsequent handling of tax/budget/economic policy which laid waste to the idea that tax hikes on the rich would hurt the economy. That's been a major shift in attitude from the public, which is why the last two tax hiking Dem Presidents were both overwhelmingly re-elected when previously that was thought to be electoral death.
    When raising the marginal tax rate on high income earners, Clinton also cut the capital gains tax. People looked from one to the other and said that the CGT cut outweighed the MTR increase as most rich people get the majority of their income from capital gains and not wages and salary.
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  2. #262
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    First people have to stop swallowing the failed trickle-down tax policies the Rs have been using to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
    Those "hikes" were 3% when they should have been 30% on the highest incomes.
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  3. #263
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    When raising the marginal tax rate on high income earners, Clinton also cut the capital gains tax. People looked from one to the other and said that the CGT cut outweighed the MTR increase as most rich people get the majority of their income from capital gains and not wages and salary.
    Since those were enacted 4 years apart, can you link me a study from those people who looked at it?
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  4. #264
    Apartheid Loving Conservadem!
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    I didnt realize we can go back in time and take the money from the Forever War to pay for Free College! I would have thought we would have heard of that by now Bernie truly is the Doc Brown of American Politics (and he is emailing me like 14 times a day right now...hey Bernard I am on vacation!!! )



    I am all for raising taxes to pay for Free College (at least 2 years) but lets remember the truth here. We dont have the money for it now. We didnt have it when we started the stupid wars (hence our debt skyrocketing) and we dont now. Some like to frame it that it is either/or when in truth it isnt. BACK THEN it may have been either/or (it wasnt because Free College wasnt even seriously being considered) but right now we are way past that. That money is gone.
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  5. #265
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    We do have money for it now despite your lack of understanding how we pay for things in this country. We literally just decided to give away 2 trillion to billionaires for no reason and supposedly didn't have that money then either.

    (also you can change the frequency of those emails pretty easily )
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 01-09-2020 at 12:06 PM.

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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    We do have money for it now despite your lack of understanding how we pay for things in this country.
    That is it exactly. Conservative things get paid for by debt, but somehow Liberal things have to be pay as you go.

    And this is despite the fact that Conservative things are sterile and lose value (military spending, corporate giveaways, tax cuts for the rich) while Liberal things are productive and add value (child care, health care, education).

    It's exactly reversed. Conservatives should have to pay for everything they do with revenue neutral measures, while Liberals should finance their measures on debt because they more than pay for themselves. That would be fiscal responsibility.
    Last edited by Kepler; 01-09-2020 at 12:11 PM.
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  7. #267
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    We do have money for it now despite your lack of understanding how we pay for things in this country.
    the way we pay for things is dumb. we shouldn't be running trillion dollar deficits when we aren't in recession

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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    That money is gone.
    Actually, it isn't. It's in the Caymans with the other $50T the 1% have looted. All we need do is go get it. They stole it. It isn't theirs.

    "Moral hazard" isn't recovering it. It's letting the crooks get away with it. The fact that they used the government to steal it doesn't make it any more legitimate than when Marcos or Putin or Milosevic or Magabe or Suharto did it.
    Last edited by Kepler; 01-09-2020 at 12:16 PM.
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    the way we pay for things is dumb. we shouldn't be running trillion dollar deficits when we aren't in recession
    The way we pay for it isn't the problem, the priorities of what they pay for is. This is why we should elect the candidate most likely to end forever wars, fund the IRS and aggressively tax billionaires, and supports programs like GND that create surpluses. You could reasonably pay down some of the debt that way and realistically we don't need to pay it down to zero anytime soon.

  10. #270
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    First people have to stop swallowing the failed trickle-down tax policies the Rs have been using to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    The way we pay for it isn't the problem, the priorities of what they pay for is. This is why we should elect the candidate most likely to end forever wars, fund the IRS and aggressively tax billionaires, and supports programs like GND that create surpluses. You could reasonably pay down some of the debt that way and realistically we don't need to pay it down to zero anytime soon.
    Correct. Change the priorities. Use the tax code to end the deficit. Go after tax evaders with Draconian penalties to discourage them from their criminality. Let the debt gradually inflate down to trivial levels in a few decades. Only use debt to finance programs with long term benefits to most Americans. Forever stop the government from serving rich minorities by having strongly distributive fiscal policy.
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  11. #271
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Let the debt gradually inflate down to trivial levels in a few decades.
    That's about the only non-cataclysmic way out of the red number we have: Quit borrowing, and then grow the economy (effectively inflating the debt down).

    But about 500 or so members of Congress can't get re-elected if they stop borrowing and end the largess to their sponsors.

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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    But about 500 or so members of Congress can't get re-elected if they stop borrowing and end the largess to their sponsors.
    Voters actually do make sacrifices sometimes. They will only do it when the cause is legitimate, however. We need to educate people as to the lethality of having a rich parasitic ruling class in this country. And both the Left and the Right need to be on board.
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  13. #273
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    If Democrats are going to talk about the debt than they've already lost. They've tried that now for the past 30 years and the GOP keeps spending it. And it hasn't changed a single vote. Stop.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    If Democrats are going to talk about the debt than they've already lost. They've tried that now for the past 30 years and the GOP keeps spending it. And it hasn't changed a single vote. Stop.
    I would not campaign on "stopping" the debt. I would campaign showing that debt is the Republican Santa Claus and force them to PayGo all their bullsh-t waste both new and retroactive. We don't do that right now because our own Members use the same strategy to lard their pork through. So we get Dem Members racking up millions in debt while GOP Members rack up trillions.

    You have to blow the lid off it all, but doing that means defying the DNC and the Captured Beltway Media and raiding the whole crap game. And only somebody like Bernie or Warren is going to do that.
    Last edited by Kepler; 01-09-2020 at 01:05 PM.
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    And only somebody like Bernie or Warren is going to do that.
    Exactly. And until that happens were all handcuffed into this box where plutocracy reigns and centrists run around bragging about all that awesome legislation they can get passed by crossing the aisle.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

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  16. #276
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    You have to blow the lid off it all, but doing that means defying the DNC and the Captured Beltway Media and raiding the whole crap game. And only somebody like Bernie or Warren is going to do that.
    I keep hearing that Warren is just Republican Lite, so why would she defy the machine?
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    I keep hearing that Warren is just Republican Lite
    Except nobody says that.

    I don't understand the need people have to stir up sh-t. It was cute when we had a sane world but now that there are stakes please stop.
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  18. #278
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Except nobody says that.

    I don't understand the need people have to stir up sh-t. It was cute when we had a sane world but now that there are stakes please stop.
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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    [The money is gone.]

    Actually, it isn't. It's in the Caymans with the other $50T the 1% have looted. All we need do is go get it. They stole it. It isn't theirs.

    "Moral hazard" isn't recovering it. It's letting the crooks get away with it. The fact that they used the government to steal it doesn't make it any more legitimate than when Marcos or Putin or Milosevic or Magabe or Suharto did it.
    I said that?

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    Re: Democratic Challengers 8: Candidates Can Only Work for A Vegan Farm Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    trix on line 1 for you Kep!
    I am way more extreme than trix so if you guys are going to hurl brickbats bring it.

    The point is when we quote the most extreme and ill-considered responses as if they were the effective positions of large sets of people on our side, the only people who benefit are the other side.

    Assume our coalition is made up of four groups, Radical Left (RL), Left (L), Center-Left (CL), and Trolling Righty Pretending to be Left (T). (Let's give these four groups fictitious names: RL: Kepler, L: dx, CL: Handy, and T: Rube.)

    The breakdown of these groups on the Left is about:

    .20 RL
    .30 L
    .40 CL
    .10 T

    But whenever RL makes a dumb comment, CL and T smear L with it. And whenever T makes a stupid incendiary troll, RL and L smear CL with it.

    Stahp!

    Ignore T. If you must, for balance, also ignore RL. (Narrator: they should not have ignored RL).


    Stop using the fringe to de-legitimize the center of the curve. My advice to L and CL is start working together you morons.
    Last edited by Kepler; 01-09-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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