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Thread: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

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    2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    To the last post, the employer pays it to the extent that the corporation pays taxes. They donít. The consumer does.

    Or in this case, wages are probably going to be suppressed to account for it.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    And workers shifted to contractor status (which is already a dumb loophole to begin with). Also the article explains how itís an indirect tax in the middle class and why itís not a great funding mechanism/less progressive/harder to enforce than the payroll tax alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    To the last post, the employer pays it to the extent that the corporation pays taxes. They donít. The consumer does.

    Or in this case, wages are probably going to be suppressed to account for it.
    Its the same amount as they pay now. The consumer may pay for it, but no more than they're already paying for it.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Sure, if we just assume that the corporation isnít going to adjust in any way to exploit the massive loopholes in her plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    To the last post, the employer pays it to the extent that the corporation pays taxes. They donít. The consumer does.

    Or in this case, wages are probably going to be suppressed to account for it.
    Corporations definitely pay their payroll taxes, which is all this is. Iím guessing that many (most?) companies that currently offer a health plan as a benefit contribute more than $9500 per employee, so those companies would actually come out ahead.

    Iím sure this would be obvious when you see the wages rising as those companies equitably share that windfall with employees!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LynahFan View Post
    Corporations definitely pay their payroll taxes, which is all this is. Iím guessing that many (most?) companies that currently offer a health plan as a benefit contribute more than $9500 per employee, so those companies would actually come out ahead.

    Iím sure this would be obvious when you see the wages rising as those companies equitably share that windfall with employees!
    Bingo.
    Mookieís company just got a 50% discount and mookieís bill went up.

    Back to the drawing board Lizzie

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    I think the payroll tax idea is perfectly fine, but it needs to be a percentage, not fixed, and it needs to include all compensation, otherwise companies will pay their CEOs $1 of salary and $20M of stock options. You want to have a high-paid CEO who will be part of the 1%? Fine, no problem - but youíre going to be paying for the healthcare of hundreds of poor people at the same time.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    How about then based on global revenues?

    >$5mm is 20% of total paid compensation
    $1mm - $5mm 10%
    <$1mm 7.5% of total comp

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Learned this morning from Corey Booker no less that Stock Buybacks were illegal at one time. And, I looked it up this morning and was totally not shocked to learn that it happened in the same administration that codified trickle down economics as the economic engine of the United States of America.

    Boy are we a ****ing stupid country.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Mixed polling in battleground states




    But in an Emerson poll for Michigan

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Those polls are worth considering. While I believe in my heart that running farther left will bring out a new electorate I am not willing to risk another four years of fascism to prove it. I could be wrong and that's not the way I want to find out.

    Because Biden just wants to be president before shuffling off this mortal coil, and has no governing philosophy of his own, it could work to run him and inundate his administration with principled democratic socialists while leaving the "sanitized for your protection" facade intact. That would be the opposite of what Democrats usually do (c.f. Obama, campaign as a liberal, govern as a centrist).

    Of course a hardcore left veep would help demonstrate bona fides, but I don't see Warren adding as much to Biden as say Harris.
    Last edited by Kepler; 11-04-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    I'd be more worried about Biden in a general election campaign than I would be if he was actually President. If he ended up winning I picture him as a go along get along kinda guy like he was when in the Senate. That's not a good thing but solid Dem leadership in Congress ought to keep him in line. He'd almost be like a Constitutional monarch, just putting an official stamp on whatever bills crossed his desk.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Those polls are worth considering. While I believe in my heart that running farther left will bring out a new electorate I am not willing to risk another four years of fascism to prove it. I could be wrong and that's not the way I want to find out.

    Because Biden just wants to be president before shuffling off this mortal coil, and has no governing philosophy of his own, it could work to run him and inundate his administration with principled democratic socialists while leaving the "sanitized for your protection" facade intact. That would be the opposite of what Democrats usually do (c.f. Obama, campaign as a liberal, govern as a centrist).

    Of course a hardcore left veep would help demonstrate bona fides, but I don't see Warren adding as much to Biden as say Harris.
    Quite a few were predicting this summer that a Biden/Harris ticket stood the best chance of dumping dumb. Might be an accurate assessment, even if neither is the first choice for many, since the target group is so small and the jursdictions at play are so few that they are hard to predict. This is a one-and-done, not total goals, format.
    Last edited by burd; 11-04-2019 at 10:49 AM.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Biden won't initiate reform and won't inhibit it. The aggressiveness of change will come from the People and the Congress. In that regard very much like Obama. It will be harder to the Noise Machine to generate End Times Catastrophe fear and paranoia about him, although obviously they'll try and the 25% will fall for it. The gun nuts and Bible fondlers will be no less insane, and Dump will still be a 24/7 font of evil gibberish.

    Anyway, still a long, long way to go before the nomination fight even gets going. No actual primaries until February 11.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Harris closes campaign offices and fires staff in NH. She's all but done.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Harris closes campaign offices and fires staff in NH. She's all but done.
    Not sure why she didn't catch fire but like O'Rourke sometimes its just not your time.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    That is too bad but it is the right choice. It is becoming quite clear who has a legit shot at this thing and she isnt one of those people. Plus now she can get back to the Senate. (when she actually does quit) Booker should do the same soon he is wasting everyone's time.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    That is too bad but it is the right choice. It is becoming quite clear who has a legit shot at this thing and she isnt one of those people. Plus now she can get back to the Senate. (when she actually does quit) Booker should do the same soon he is wasting everyone's time.
    My issue is this though (well, one of them anyway ): I was hoping somebody would cut into Zombie Joe Biden's support amongst the AA population in delegate rich Southern states on Super Tuesday. Some natural heirs to that group's support could have been O'Rourke (won heavily Hispanic district, from the South) or Harris. With them both out of the way, and my preferred candidate Lizzy Warren not yet making those connections, Zombie Joe is going to win those votes by default. Its all well and good if he loses IA and NH, but if he then turns around and wins NV (with an assist from Harry Reid's machine) and then South Carolina, his Undead campaign is going to shuffle on and accumulate delegates unless he has a complete meltdown.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    I don't think we can project as much from the early primaries to Super Tuesday as we used to be able to. Campaign coverage used to be completely about primary results, so there was a domino effect. But there is so much more coverage, now, and so much greater granularity, that by the Friday after a primary 3 other stories will have knocked the result off the screen.

    That self-fulfilling prophesy stuff may just not be operative anymore.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Tom Perez was on POTUS this morning and was excellent. He's got a good political mind and he's not falling into the old traps that plagued us under prior leadership. I'm happy with him as the DNC lead.
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