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Thread: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    My opinion, yours may vary:

    72 McGovern Left Lost
    76 Carter Center Won
    80 Carter Center Lost
    84 Mondale Left Lost
    88 Dukakis Center Lost
    92 Clinton Left Won
    96 Clinton Center Won
    00 Gore Center Lost
    04 Kerry Center Lost
    08 Obama Left Won
    12 Obama Center Won
    16 Hillary Center Lost

    Left: 2-2
    Center: 3-5

    I move both Clinton and Obama from Left in their first election for what they ran as to Center in the re-election for their record.

    I would like to point out, however that since 1984 the record is:

    Left: 2-0
    Center: 2-4

    and both Center wins got into office in the first place by running as Left.
    I donít think Iíd put Dukakis as ďcenterĒ... and B Clinton/ Obama were mayyybe boarderline left their first go around..

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
    Obama is a smart guy. :-)

  3. #243
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    JFK was not a liberal. His foreign policy was more hawkish than Eisenhower and his fear of communism was legendary. He cut the top marginal tax rate by more than Reagan did.

    We remember JFK as a liberal darling because Bobby was a liberal (and the brains of the outfit) and because he was murdered and is therefore a Democratic Saint. But he was backpeddling from FDR as fast as his shapely legs could go. It was LBJ himself who enacted the great liberal policies of the 60s but he was destroyed by Vietnam.
    Correct. But, oh no, AOC, the squad, and Bernie.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    .

    This is what some of the uber-left don't realize about themselves.
    No one here is "Łber-left", except for maybe trix and ticap. Kep thinks he's Łber-left, but he's too old and too rich to be accepted into the revolutionary brotherhood.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    No one here is "Łber-left", except for maybe trix and ticap. Kep thinks he's Łber-left, but he's too old and too rich to be accepted into the revolutionary brotherhood.
    I would nominate rufie and Scoobs. I agree on Kep.
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  6. #246

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    No one here is "Łber-left", except for maybe trix and ticap. Kep thinks he's Łber-left, but he's too old and too rich to be accepted into the revolutionary brotherhood.
    Hey! Leftist Poseur is all I got, man.
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  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericredaxe View Post
    Obama is a smart guy. :-)
    The dems lost like 1000 state seats and every lever of power in the federal government largely due to his management of the party.

  8. #248
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    The dems lost like 1000 state seats and every lever of power in the federal government largely due to his management of the party.
    This is another fact that people just don't understand or get. Not only did he lose all those seats while he ran the party but he also tried over and over and over again to negotiate with the terrorists.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

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    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    This is another fact that people just don't understand or get. Not only did he lose all those seats while he ran the party but he also tried over and over and over again to negotiate with the terrorists.
    Probably because theyíre borderline republicans and donít actually care about winning or taking the type of steps necessary to restore peoplesí faith in government and sustainably defeat fascism long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    This is another fact that people just don't understand or get. Not only did he lose all those seats while he ran the party but he also tried over and over and over again to negotiate with the terrorists.
    Well considering the Democrats only had control of the House and Senate from 09-11 in his 8 years...he didn't really have a choice but to try and work with Republicans to get things passed.
    You keep hammering this negotiate with terrorists narrative but unless you have a majority...things aren't going to get passed otherwise.
    Hell the Republicans had a majority when Trump was elected and a lot of things still didn't get passed and nothing is being passed now.
    Vote them out sure...but without the majority...i'd love to know how you expect legislation to get done without negotiations...

  11. #251
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Yes but letís not act like giving banks money to illegally foreclose peoplesí homes (putting black wealth and home ownership rates back to what they were 100 years prior) whole offering virtually nothing to homeowners did nothing to lead to that wave election cycle.

    Obviously I see your point that he canít really negotiate with a side that has no interest in doing so but itís not like he did anything to keep the power he initially had either.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 11-16-2019 at 12:27 PM.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Probably because theyíre borderline republicans and donít actually care about winning or taking the type of steps necessary to restore peoplesí faith in government and sustainably defeat fascism long term.
    Go Fark yourself, you myopic nincompoop.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    The dems lost like 1000 state seats and every lever of power in the federal government largely due to his management of the party.
    No. This was debunked by 538, as I have repeatedly demonstrated, and I believe at one point you even accepted that and apologized for continuing to use it. The Dems' losses down ticket and in state legs were in the range of other presidencies. Likewise, Dump and the GOP have been hemorrhaging downticket seats.

    Please retire this talking point. I understand it is attractive given our impatience with the party apparatus' "pragmatic" betrayal of liberals in order to field centrist candidates who then lose because of their lack of appeal and inability to broaden the electoral base. I share your frustration with the narratives that apparently never die that the only way for us to win is to tip toe around the Plutes' aggressive bullsh-t about "job creation" or "punishing success."

    I get all that.

    But the talking about Obama losing 1000 state leg seats because he was a wimp has been refuted. It is dead. One difference between liberals and conservatives is we do not continue to repeat untruths simply because they are useful.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    538 is trash and didnít debunk that point at all lol. It wasnít because he was a wimp, itís because he went back on a lot of his campaign promises and his actions didnít come close to resembling his rhetoric at which point people lost even more faith in our democracy and didnít turn out for Hillary or any of the down ballot elections.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 11-16-2019 at 12:58 PM.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Yes but letís not act like giving banks money to illegally foreclose peoplesí homes (putting black wealth and home ownership rates back to what they were 100 years prior) whole offering virtually nothing to homeowners did nothing to lead to that wave election cycle.

    Obviously I see your point that he canít really negotiate with a side that has no interest in doing so but itís not like he did anything to keep the power he initially had either.
    See Kepler.
    Blaming it all on Obama is short-sighted.
    And BTW...your boy Bernie...isnt going to be some magic uniter either.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    538 is trash and didnít debunk that point at all lol.
    Doesn't fit your narrative....no wonder you deny it.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    he also tried over and over and over again to negotiate with the terrorists.
    That was the brand he went with: the Unifier. Remember "there are no red states or blue states"? It was trying to be Lincoln, and the GOP said fine we'll be Booth.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers VII: Bon Voyage Beto

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    538 is trash and didn’t debunk that point at all lol.
    Wow. I think we're done here.
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  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
    Doesn't fit your narrative....no wonder you deny it.
    It doesnít match reality

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Wow. I think we're done here.
    Well yeah, if youíre gonna peddle Nate Bronzeís site as gospel we can probably do that lol. If heís trying to act like the left narrative of Obama is that his failure to ďnegotiateĒ or be tough on republicans was the main problem that needs to be debunked then it already misses the mark completely.

    The dems losses being in line with other wave elections just further bolsters the point that people lack faith in their government and have for a very long time and Obama did nothing to restore it. Acting like this is some inevitable force that canít be counteracted in any way is the type of drivel Iíd expect from that site though.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 11-16-2019 at 01:07 PM.

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