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Thread: 2019 - 20 Rankings

  1. #41
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    I think UW UM and NE are all on equal ground.
    What ground do you have Cornell on?
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

  2. #42
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by ARM View Post
    What ground do you have Cornell on?
    Higher Ground,
    at the time, I think he was hinting at Cornell being #1
    did they have a problem with the flu this past weekend?

    Now I'd say UM, followed by Cornell, UW, and NE but you need a razor blade to separate them.

    in other news, I think my suggestion that Bemidji be ranked above UMD has come to a solid yes for me

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by ARM View Post
    What ground do you have Cornell on?
    I don' know if this is what PC is referencing but from 1973's "Innervisions"...

    Higher Ground

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    much prefer the version by the only hip hop band worth a dam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZySqMlEuSQ

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    much prefer the version by the only hip hop band worth a dam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZySqMlEuSQ
    I can appreciate that...That is a good cover.

    This might be what Bluffrinkrat prefers...

    Higher Ground

    And if I'm going with a cover this one's production quality, drummers, and horn section is soooo good.

    Higher Ground
    Last edited by FiveHoleFrenzy; 01-13-2020 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Covers

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    Higher Ground,
    in other news, I think my suggestion that Bemidji be ranked above UMD has come to a solid yes for me
    It will be frustrating if UMD continues to ranked #10 (I see they are in the SB Nation rankings). The way the Beavers played the Badgers this weekend (not just one upset but also a close game Fri), and the fact that BSU is 2-1 head-to-head with UMD should earn the Beavers a higher ranking than UMD.

    Having said that, this weekend BSU gets a chance to put its money where it's mouth is. I think getting at least a split should put them ahead of UMD. If the Beavers get swept, well, than the rankings look pretty accurate.

  7. #47
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    I think that a case can be made either way. UMD has been better in nonconference play, and BSU has definitely had the better WCHA season to date.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    USCHO Division I Women's Poll - January 13, 2020
    Rnk Team (Last Poll)
    1 Minnesota (2)
    2 Wisconsin (1)
    3 Notheastern (3)
    4 Cornell (4)
    5 Ohio State (5)
    6 Princeton (7)
    7 Clarkson (5)
    8 Boston University (8)
    9 Harvard (9)
    10 Minnesota Duluth (10)

    Minnesota takes over the No. 1 ranking from Wisconsin following the Badgers loss to Bemidji State on Saturday. Up to this point the Gophers and Badgers have traded places at No. 1 in every USCHO poll, with Wisconsin claiming the top spot for the season's first 6 weeks until Minnesota took it over for 4 weeks in the month of November. The Badgers reclaimed No. 1 on December 2nd and held it until this week's poll. So for the season Wisconsin had been voted No. 1 for 9 weeks, the Gophers 5.

    Just below these two Northeastern, Cornell and Ohio State hold their positions at Nos. 3, 4 and 5 respectively; Princeton climbs one to No. 6; Clarkson falls two following their upset loss to Yale; and Boston University, Harvard and Minnesota Duluth retain Nos. 8, 9 and 10 respectively. And for the first time this season Bemidji State gets some recognition in the "Others Receiving Votes" category for their upset win over the Badgers.
    Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

  9. #49
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    [B]

    Minnesota takes over the No. 1 ranking from Wisconsin following the Badgers loss to Bemidji State on Saturday. Up to this point the Gophers and Badgers have traded places at No. 1 in every USCHO poll, with Wisconsin claiming the top spot for the season's first 6 weeks until Minnesota took it over for 4 weeks in the month of November. The Badgers reclaimed No. 1 on December 2nd and held it until this week's poll. So for the season Wisconsin had been voted No. 1 for 9 weeks, the Gophers 5.
    Interestingly (to me, anyway) there is one voter who has Minn at third, and one voter who has Wisconsin at third (all voters have one or the other at first). IIRC, there have been one or two voters who had Minn at third for the last couple weeks, going back to before Christmas.

    Minn 144 = (10x10) + (4x9) + (1x8)
    Wis 139 = (5x10) + (9x9) + (1x8)

  10. #50
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    Interestingly (to me, anyway) there is one voter who has Minn at third, and one voter who has Wisconsin at third (all voters have one or the other at first).
    I noticed that, too. I think that a case can be made for having Cornell above Minnesota, but the Union tie isn't a great result. Or the voter could pick Northeastern above UM based on an eye test. I'm not sure who a voter would place second ahead of Wisconsin. That seemed more strange to me.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

  11. #51
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by ARM View Post
    I noticed that, too. I think that a case can be made for having Cornell above Minnesota, but the Union tie isn't a great result. Or the voter could pick Northeastern above UM based on an eye test. I'm not sure who a voter would place second ahead of Wisconsin. That seemed more strange to me.
    If you use Goals for/Goals against, especially if you limit it to conference games to account for some extraordinarily weak nonconference opponents, Wisconsin is significantly the weakest of the four teams at the top. You then get into questions of relative conference strength, and I'd still have the Badgers at #2, though it's getting very close. But I can at least see the argument for putting two teams above Wisconsin.

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    If you use Goals for/Goals against, especially if you limit it to conference games to account for some extraordinarily weak nonconference opponents, Wisconsin is significantly the weakest of the four teams at the top. You then get into questions of relative conference strength, and I'd still have the Badgers at #2, though it's getting very close. But I can at least see the argument for putting two teams above Wisconsin.
    Somebody refresh my memory: isn't there a fairly straight-forward way to figure out if it is the same 'second place' team on both ballots? Aren't we talking about more-or-less solving ten simple equations in ten variables; matrix algebra? It has been WAY too long to remember...

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by ARM View Post
    . I'm not sure who a voter would place second ahead of Wisconsin. That seemed more strange to me.
    Even though UW won the game, I would put NE ahead of UW.
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    Somebody refresh my memory: isn't there a fairly straight-forward way to figure out if it is the same 'second place' team on both ballots? Aren't we talking about more-or-less solving ten simple equations in ten variables; matrix algebra? It has been WAY too long to remember...
    There are more than ten variables; there are ten variables per team. Each team's equation takes the form:

    10*a + 9*b + 8*c + 7*d + 6*e + 5*f + 4*g + 3*h + 2*i + 1*j = Point Total

    where the letters represent the number of each type of vote a team receives. But those values will not all be the same for each team, and probably won't all be the same for any team. You can't use linear algebra to solve this. I also suspect that there are multiple solutions for many different set of poll results, though it's trivially easy to demonstrate that this is not true for all possible results.

  15. #55
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    They are all very close, that’s for sure.
    But I don’t see how you can place NE above UW, and I don’t see how you can place UW above UM.
    The only question remaining is where does Cornell fit in?
    I wouldn’t quibble with anyone placing them anywhere from #1 & #4, although #4 seems the least appropriate.
    I place them between UM & UW, if for no other reason that it’s a compromise between putting them ahead of UM or putting them behind UW.

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    There are more than ten variables; there are ten variables per team. Each team's equation takes the form:

    10*a + 9*b + 8*c + 7*d + 6*e + 5*f + 4*g + 3*h + 2*i + 1*j = Point Total

    where the letters represent the number of each type of vote a team receives. But those values will not all be the same for each team, and probably won't all be the same for any team. You can't use linear algebra to solve this. I also suspect that there are multiple solutions for many different set of poll results, though it's trivially easy to demonstrate that this is not true for all possible results.

    Hmm... But we also know (ignoring 'others receiving votes' for the moment) that a-sub1 + a-sub2 etc adds up to 10 votes cast. So we have ten more equations to throw into the mix.

    But, yeah, too much work for such an idle question. Never mind, and thanks.

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    Hmm... But we also know (ignoring 'others receiving votes' for the moment) that a-sub1 + a-sub2 etc adds up to 10 votes cast. So we have ten more equations to throw into the mix.

    But, yeah, too much work for such an idle question. Never mind, and thanks.
    LOL

    So I thought I'd spend ten more minutes looking at the numbers, thinking I might see something by 'inspection', and I did.

    The totals for the top four teams adds up such that one might assume that they form their own 'sub-group' of values: that is, all the #1 votes and #2 votes and #3 votes and #4 votes get assigned to the top four teams; nobody 5 or below got any 'fourth place votes' etc. (Likewise the three teams in poll spots 5,6,and 7 might form their own sub-group; and then a third group of 8 and below).

    But even if you make that assumption (unless I did something stupid, always a possibility), there is a possible solution that works if team #3 got both of the second place votes, and a solution where team #3 and team #4 each got one of the two second place votes.

    So I give up. Time to go for a run.

    -------------
    Minn 144 = (10x10) + (4x9) + (1x8)
    Wis 139 = (5x10) + (9x9) + (1x8)
    Northeastern 119 = (1x9) + (12x8) + (2x7)
    Cornell 108 = (1x9) + (1x8) + (13x7)

    or

    Minn 144 = (10x10) + (4x9) + (1x8)
    Wis 139 = (5x10) + (9x9) + (1x8)
    Northeastern 119 = (2x9) + (10x8) + (3x7)
    Cornell 108 = (0x9) + (3x8) + (12x7)

  18. #58
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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    But even if you make that assumption (unless I did something stupid, always a possibility), there is a possible solution that works if team #3 got both of the second place votes, and a solution where team #3 and team #4 each got one of the two second place votes.
    I think that you proved that your assumption must be true. Because if some other team had received a vote for 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place, then there wouldn't be sufficient "high" votes available to allow all four teams to reach their known point totals via 15 votes.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Since for lack of interest there isn’t a fan poll this year, and the chances of BC winning a game are almost as slim as Amy Klobuchar getting the nomination of the Democrats, maybe TTT can whip you guys up a spreadsheet that would reveal the answer.

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    Re: 2019 - 20 Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    Amy Klobuchar getting the nomination of the Democrats
    She might have a bit of trouble in the Kansas primary...

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