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2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

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  • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
    Believe it or not, yes, one can make some dough. Even become a franchisee. I was at that point, early on in my career path.

    You're shaming that path, and whether you realize it or not...take a step back.

    I don't make a ton of money, but my job is pretty much perfect for me. I wouldn't trade it.
    You also work for a company that isn't notoriously frugal on paying employees. Or at least I have never heard your employer mentioned in minimum wage discussions.

    Also, McDonalds, because of the franchise model, wildly varies from franchisee to franchisee.
    “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

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    • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

      Originally posted by aparch View Post
      You also work for a company that isn't notoriously frugal on paying employees. Or at least I have never heard your employer mentioned in minimum wage discussions.

      Also, McDonalds, because of the franchise model, wildly varies from franchisee to franchisee.
      Min wage jobs are TRAINING JOBS. They are not meant to sustain a career. They are stepping stones. Simple as that. When I first started out, it wasn't at my current company. It was the food court at the local mall and a small, privately owned family company. Those jobs gave me the knowledge and lessons to advance in other jobs. And it paid off.
      Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
      Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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      • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

        Originally posted by The Rube View Post
        Min wage jobs are TRAINING JOBS. They are not meant to sustain a career. They are stepping stones. Simple as that. When I first started out, it wasn't at my current company. It was the food court at the local mall and a small, privately owned family company. Those jobs gave me the knowledge and lessons to advance in other jobs. And it paid off.
        There are no places to step. The job market is garbage. Yes, there are tons of jobs out there but they all pay crap wages. And no, I'm not "shaming" any one, except the CEO and executives at places like McDonald's that pay minimum wage to everyone regardless if they are 16 or 66. Do you really think a 66 year-old is using minimum wage as a stepping stone to another career?

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        • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

          Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
          There are no places to step. The job market is garbage. Yes, there are tons of jobs out there but they all pay crap wages. And no, I'm not "shaming" any one, except the CEO and executives at places like McDonald's that pay minimum wage to everyone regardless if they are 16 or 66. Do you really think a 66 year-old is using minimum wage as a stepping stone to another career?
          And do you realize that blue collar jobs are BEGGING for workers, and are paying rather well?
          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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          • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

            Originally posted by The Rube View Post
            And do you realize that blue collar jobs are BEGGING for workers, and are paying rather well?
            Blue collar jobs. Like LL Bean? When I started working there 26 years ago my starting wage was 42% higher than minimum wage. The current starting wage is 13% higher than minimum wage. Is that the "rather well" you mean?

            Of course, back then it was family owned. Now it isn't.

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            • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

              Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
              Blue collar jobs. Like LL Bean? When I started working there 26 years ago my starting wage was 42% higher than minimum wage. The current starting wage is 13% higher than minimum wage. Is that the "rather well" you mean?

              Of course, back then it was family owned. Now it isn't.
              Manufacturing, HVAC, mechanic, etc. You know, the jobs that have the stigma of "stupid people take those jobs," "I need a college degree so I don't end up in one of those jobs," that type of blue collar.
              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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              • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

                I guess the requirements for those jobs are different out west. Here you have to have at least a year of experience and a license (or a 2 year degree). A quick Google search shows jobs that have been available all year because no one has the license or experience. It's the usual trap. You can't get a job unless you have the experience, but you can't get the necessary experience because no one will hire you.

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                • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

                  Originally posted by The Rube View Post
                  Min wage jobs are TRAINING JOBS. They are not meant to sustain a career. They are stepping stones. Simple as that. When I first started out, it wasn't at my current company. It was the food court at the local mall and a small, privately owned family company. Those jobs gave me the knowledge and lessons to advance in other jobs. And it paid off.
                  So explain why people end up working said honest jobs (and they are) for years and years...

                  You're a good guy, Rube. You worked the food court at some "local mall" (the MoA? ) after dropping out of college and now you drive a forklift and make decent money plus get 10-15 days PTO? That's arguably the American Dream™. I wish more average kids would be able to escape college/uni and do their two years of community college + apprentice to an accountant or consultant or whatever.

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                  • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

                    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                    So explain why people end up working said honest jobs (and they are) for years and years...

                    You're a good guy, Rube. You worked the food court at some "local mall" (the MoA? ) after dropping out of college and now you drive a forklift and make decent money plus get 10-15 days PTO? That's arguably the American Dream™. I wish more average kids would be able to escape college/uni and do their two years of community college + apprentice to an accountant or consultant or whatever.
                    Hah.

                    Yeah, more than a living wage, 6 weeks PTO (and in 2 years, that is raised), health benefits out the arse, etc. I have actually passed over mgmt recommendations, because I don't want to relocate to northern CA, SC, or FLA. So have fun at my expense, further the stigma. If one wants to make good money, it's out there, but guess what, you have to work for it/take a less glamorous job.
                    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                    • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
                      Min wage is the "here's your training for a real living job."
                      Wrong.

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                      • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
                        Hah.

                        Yeah, more than a living wage, 6 weeks PTO (and in 2 years, that is raised), health benefits out the arse, etc. I have actually passed over mgmt recommendations, because I don't want to relocate to northern CA, SC, or FLA. So have fun at my expense, further the stigma. If one wants to make good money, it's out there, but guess what, you have to work for it/take a less glamorous job.
                        Furthering what stigma? No one is saying don’t go blue collar. We’re saying everyone should be paid more. I can’t remember if they made them stop doing it, but Walmart and McDonald’s used to hand out food stamp apps with their hiring papers. That shouldn’t be necessary because they should be paying them enough in the first place.

                        The blue collar positions aren’t paying enough either, but just because those aren’t doesn’t mean other areas should be kept lower by default.
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                        • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

                          Originally posted by The Rube View Post

                          Secondary point, half the time, anecdotal, those workers can't even get their job right in the first place. It's a McJob for a reason. It's an entry level job to teach you to advance in the job market.
                          You been in a McD's lately? 30, 40, 50 year olds manning the counter. And I'm not talking about the management.

                          It's not an entry level job anymore. it's a second income job for men and women who need more than one income to live. It's a job for older people who are either waiting for retirement, or need more than SS to live on. That's the way it is in AmeriKKKa today.
                          What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                          • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

                            Originally posted by The Rube View Post
                            Manufacturing, HVAC, mechanic, etc. You know, the jobs that have the stigma of "stupid people take those jobs," "I need a college degree so I don't end up in one of those jobs," that type of blue collar.
                            You also need some sort of higher education for most of those "stupid people jobs" as you term them. You see all the HVAC training school ads. How do you do that, how do you pay for that, when you're working 60+ hours/week at your "McJob" trying to feed your family?
                            What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                            • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

                              As someone who spent the last 10 years in retail, there is minimal movement upwards now. And the movement that is there takes you from $9-11/hour to $11-14/hour. Ironically, it's boomers who have spent their careers in retail that are preventing the upward movement. They are in the same management positions now that they have been in for 20+ years. Also with the various mass failures of larger retail operations, you have people with 20+ years experience at levels above the job being hired for competing against people in their 20s. Who do you think is going to be hired? Remember, it's all about what's listed on a resume. The interview means nothing.

                              I know I've posted my deal here before. This segment of the political debate really hits home for me. Many of us in our 30s had the rug pulled out from below our feet and we were never given an honest chance. Those "McJobs" became reality through need, not by choice. You also pigeon hole yourself by working these jobs. There absolutely is a stigma against someone who has 10 years of retail. People at "real" jobs ask themselves "Why has this person not done anything with their degree?" in the 10 years they've been out of school. In the modern job market, employers are looking for any little thing to eliminate someone. Some of those things are legit and related to the ability to do the job. The "cost" of the person is another factor. I've seen resumes turned down at my employer because the person's resume gave the impression that they would want too high of wage. They feel that these people are a "flight risk". They know exactly what they are getting with the low wages and will fight tooth and nail to keep it.
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                              • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

                                Originally posted by rufus View Post
                                You also need some sort of higher education for most of those "stupid people jobs" as you term them. You see all the HVAC training school ads. How do you do that, how do you pay for that, when you're working 60+ hours/week at your "McJob" trying to feed your family?
                                Well, in regards to those HVAC schools, the payoff is relatively immediate after 2 years of training. Assuming your state has a strong Pipefitters Union, that person can take out a student loan that's not usually very large, and then make an apprentice's wage scale for a few years before becoming a journeyman, and then a master, if they're motivated.
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