2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

[ticapnews]

Carry on.

[dxmnkd316]

The leap from Clinton to McCain was almost a decade earlier. And the leap was a fifth the distance the leap from Sanders to Trump.

Especially if Clinton was such a warmongering conservadem you people like to claim she was. That 10% doesn’t represent what you think it does.

[ticapnews]

The leap from Clinton to McCain was almost a decade earlier. And the leap was a fifth the distance the leap from Sanders to Trump.

Especially if Clinton was such a warmongering conservadem you people like to claim she was. That 10% doesn’t represent what you think it does.

My claim: More Sanders voters went for Clinton than Clinton voters went for Obama.
The evidence: Sniffles got 10% of Sanders voters while McCain got up to 25% of Clinton voters.
That seems pretty cut and dried. You can argue all you want about semantics.

I've already said that many union workers who backed Sanders in the primary switched to Sniffles because he claimed to be pro-union and Clinton very much was not. Despite the fact everyone warned them it was a lie, they still chose Sniffles. Maybe if she had made a few different choices she might have convinced those union voters to stay with her. Or maybe she could have won enough votes in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania so it didn't matter. But she didn't.

Stop blaming Bernie voters for her being a ****ty candidate.

[BassAle]

His health _is_ a legitimate concern. The dude is 78, just had a heart attack and is running for one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.

Yes we know Trump is a fat piece of ****, but you Bernie Bros need to get your heads out of your asses. It’s time to maybe stop treat the other democrats running like their Hitler and find some common ground.

[BassAle]

Those 10% of Bernie voters (and those like you that stayed home) should have known better. She can’t make voters not be idiots.

[Handyman]

The argument, as I laid out a few days ago, is that it doesn't matter. We could run The Iron Man, Cal Ripken Jr, and Sniffles would still find a way to make his health a campaign issue. Hell, we could run Ironman and he'd say Tony Stark has heart problems.

That is true...that doesnt change the fact though that he actually does have heart issues which is concerning for everyone.

I get what you are trying to say but I dont think the logic works out as well as you think it does. Just because Trump is going to attack the health of all the candidates doesnt mean we should put forth a candidate who legitimizes his attacks.

[dxmnkd316]

My claim: More Sanders voters went for Clinton than Clinton voters went for Obama.
The evidence: Sniffles got 10% of Sanders voters while McCain got up to 25% of Clinton voters.
That seems pretty cut and dried. You can argue all you want about semantics.

I've already said that many union workers who backed Sanders in the primary switched to Sniffles because he claimed to be pro-union and Clinton very much was not. Despite the fact everyone warned them it was a lie, they still chose Sniffles. Maybe if she had made a few different choices she might have convinced those union voters to stay with her. Or maybe she could have won enough votes in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania so it didn't matter. But she didn't.

Stop blaming Bernie voters for her being a ****ty candidate.

I’m saying those aren’t the same thing. You keep making it seem like a jump from Clinton to McCain was the same as Sanders to Trump. It’s not.

Clinton was anti-union? You better call the WaPo because you’ve got a hell of a scoop.

Edit: And for the record, they’re both stupid moves. I was one of the dumbasses who supported Clinton and voted McCain. One of the biggest regrets of my life. Something I won’t repeat.

[aparch]

Here's the thing... *Where* were these 10% Bernie Bros voting? Were they in Florida, Michigan and Pennsylvania? If its 10% spread across the US, that's .2% per state on average.

Less Bernie Bros voted for Trump per state than everyone who voted for green party candidates.

[rufus]

I’m saying those aren’t the same thing. You keep making it seem like a jump from Clinton to McCain was the same as Sanders to Trump. It’s not.

Clinton was anti-union? You better call the WaPo because you’ve got a hell of a scoop.

Edit: And for the record, they’re both stupid moves. I was one of the dumbasses who supported Clinton and voted McCain. One of the biggest regrets of my life. Something I won’t repeat.

Not ragging on you. But why? Your reasons going from Hillary to McCain?

[Slap Shot]

No one is blaming Bernie voters on the whole, but they played a small part though. The majority of it was all on Hillary. Yet Warren doesn't come close to having the same roadblocks so stop crapping on her just because you're Bernie fawning falls on deaf ears here.

[LynahFan]

It’s also important context to remember that going into the booths in 2008, Obama was polling around +9 and we were coming off a very unpopular R administration. There wasn’t nearly the same urgency for people to toe the party line. In 2016, anyone remotely left-leaning (or remotely sane) should have been stampeding to the polls in support of Hillary. So some Appalachian (read: racist) union coal miners didn’t vote for the black man - so what? Two wrongs don’t make a right; Bernie bros who didn’t vote for Hillary can definitely still be called out for being stupid.

[ticapnews]

Calling us "Bernie Bros" and blaming us for Clinton's loss doesn't exactly make us want to support your candidate. I was told - literally told - by Clinton supporters that they didn't want my vote. I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.

But let's rehash the 2016 election because that is sure to build party unity and defeat Sniffles. 👍

[Handyman]

Stein voters are more to blame if you ask me.

[ticapnews]

No one is blaming Bernie voters on the whole, but they played a small part though. The majority of it was all on Hillary. Yet Warren doesn't come close to having the same roadblocks so stop crapping on her just because you're Bernie fawning falls on deaf ears here.

Please point to one negative thing I have said about Elizabeth Warren.

[bronconick]

Stein voters are more to blame if you ask me.

Stein voters are the worst. Had two old co workers I had to mute on facebook because they threw her **** around as soon as Bernie endorsed Hillary. One has spent the rest of the last three years going full anti vaccines. I'd just drop her but I get more entertainment calling antivaxxers stupid.

[ticapnews]

Stein voters are the worst. Had two old co workers I had to mute on facebook because they threw her **** around as soon as Bernie endorsed Hillary. One has spent the rest of the last three years going full anti vaccines. I'd just drop her but I get more entertainment calling antivaxxers stupid.

[Handyman]

Stein voters are the worst. Had two old co workers I had to mute on facebook because they threw her **** around as soon as Bernie endorsed Hillary. One has spent the rest of the last three years going full anti vaccines. I'd just drop her but I get more entertainment calling antivaxxers stupid.

Ugh...not to mention Stein was a Russian Bot too.

[dxmnkd316]

Not ragging on you. But why? Your reasons going from Hillary to McCain?

That’s a great question. I’ve gone over it so many times in my head since the 2012 election where I enthusiastically voted for Obama.

I think the answer I ultimately come to each time is that I was 23 in 2008. I was fresh out of college and didn’t know my *** from my elbow. I also was a freshly picked white, upper middle class, college-educated male engineer. Many (most?) of us go through a strong libertarian or even conservative phase, especially out of college. I was smack dab in the middle of that phase. I consumed a lot of Fox News and it really eats away at your compass like an acid. Makes it brittle and weak. It took several years to find my morals again. I remembered that I had to actually use my brain instead of letting it rot watching schmucks like O’Reilly. I also had to rediscover the real meaning of unbiased and independent. Fox does an excellent job convincing its viewers that independent really means conservative. I also had to remove the tarnish on words like liberal and socialism.

Oddly enough, I started to watch a lot of Lawrence O’Donnell and Keith Olbermann around this time and started posting more in the Cafe. I still remember Olbermann showing video of Palin standing in front of the turkey head mashing machine, blood everywhere, and it was just an eye-opening moment. The cafe also started to make me question the beliefs I had at the time. Especially the more noted liberal posters here. Just didn’t happen early enough.

Now that you have my background, it makes it easier to see why the socialist obummer was going to come and steal my hard earned money. I really liked McCain, still do, but I despised Pailin. I thought that was a horrific pick. But she was a secondary to the hatred I had for people like Franken and Obama. It had nothing to do with race and everything to do with socialism being pejorative. Clinton didn’t represent that.

I do remember voting for a lot of democrats during this phase too, senate definitely. I don’t think I voted for Bachman during this time, but I suppose it’s also possible I just repressed that memory. But I still don’t think I did.

I was a not so good person back then. I’ve grown a lot.

Edit: lol. Bingo. Found it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TIB3IZ7A7X8

[Stauber1]

Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem all that smart to structure an entire analysis based on "one study."

The whole argument seems pretty pointless to me, but presumably educated people continuing to throw out this 25% number with such certainty is especially strange

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Here's the thing... *Where* were these 10% Bernie Bros voting? Were they in Florida, Michigan and Pennsylvania? If its 10% spread across the US, that's .2% per state on average.

Less Bernie Bros voted for Trump per state than everyone who voted for green party candidates.

Based on the article posted by ticapnews, it broke down as follows:

Michigan: 8% (or an estimated 47,915 Sanders-Trump voters (in a state with a margin of 10,704))
Pennsylvania: 16% (or an estimated 117,100 Sanders-Trump voters (in a state with a margin of 44,292))
Wisconsin: 9% (or an estimated 51,317 Sanders-Trump voters (in a state with a margin of 22,748))

So...yeah.

Also, it was 12% of Sanders voters, not 10%...at least according to the article.