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Thread: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

  1. #1
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    2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Carry on.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    The leap from Clinton to McCain was almost a decade earlier. And the leap was a fifth the distance the leap from Sanders to Trump.

    Especially if Clinton was such a warmongering conservadem you people like to claim she was. That 10% doesnít represent what you think it does.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    The leap from Clinton to McCain was almost a decade earlier. And the leap was a fifth the distance the leap from Sanders to Trump.

    Especially if Clinton was such a warmongering conservadem you people like to claim she was. That 10% doesnít represent what you think it does.
    My claim: More Sanders voters went for Clinton than Clinton voters went for Obama.
    The evidence: Sniffles got 10% of Sanders voters while McCain got up to 25% of Clinton voters.
    That seems pretty cut and dried. You can argue all you want about semantics.

    I've already said that many union workers who backed Sanders in the primary switched to Sniffles because he claimed to be pro-union and Clinton very much was not. Despite the fact everyone warned them it was a lie, they still chose Sniffles. Maybe if she had made a few different choices she might have convinced those union voters to stay with her. Or maybe she could have won enough votes in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania so it didn't matter. But she didn't.

    Stop blaming Bernie voters for her being a ****ty candidate.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    His health _is_ a legitimate concern. The dude is 78, just had a heart attack and is running for one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.

    Yes we know Trump is a fat piece of ****, but you Bernie Bros need to get your heads out of your asses. Itís time to maybe stop treat the other democrats running like their Hitler and find some common ground.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Those 10% of Bernie voters (and those like you that stayed home) should have known better. She canít make voters not be idiots.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews
    The argument, as I laid out a few days ago, is that it doesn't matter. We could run The Iron Man, Cal Ripken Jr, and Sniffles would still find a way to make his health a campaign issue. Hell, we could run Ironman and he'd say Tony Stark has heart problems.
    That is true...that doesnt change the fact though that he actually does have heart issues which is concerning for everyone.

    I get what you are trying to say but I dont think the logic works out as well as you think it does. Just because Trump is going to attack the health of all the candidates doesnt mean we should put forth a candidate who legitimizes his attacks.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    My claim: More Sanders voters went for Clinton than Clinton voters went for Obama.
    The evidence: Sniffles got 10% of Sanders voters while McCain got up to 25% of Clinton voters.
    That seems pretty cut and dried. You can argue all you want about semantics.

    I've already said that many union workers who backed Sanders in the primary switched to Sniffles because he claimed to be pro-union and Clinton very much was not. Despite the fact everyone warned them it was a lie, they still chose Sniffles. Maybe if she had made a few different choices she might have convinced those union voters to stay with her. Or maybe she could have won enough votes in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania so it didn't matter. But she didn't.

    Stop blaming Bernie voters for her being a ****ty candidate.
    Iím saying those arenít the same thing. You keep making it seem like a jump from Clinton to McCain was the same as Sanders to Trump. Itís not.

    Clinton was anti-union? You better call the WaPo because youíve got a hell of a scoop.

    Edit: And for the record, theyíre both stupid moves. I was one of the dumbasses who supported Clinton and voted McCain. One of the biggest regrets of my life. Something I wonít repeat.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Here's the thing... *Where* were these 10% Bernie Bros voting? Were they in Florida, Michigan and Pennsylvania? If its 10% spread across the US, that's .2% per state on average.

    Less Bernie Bros voted for Trump per state than everyone who voted for green party candidates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Iím saying those arenít the same thing. You keep making it seem like a jump from Clinton to McCain was the same as Sanders to Trump. Itís not.

    Clinton was anti-union? You better call the WaPo because youíve got a hell of a scoop.

    Edit: And for the record, theyíre both stupid moves. I was one of the dumbasses who supported Clinton and voted McCain. One of the biggest regrets of my life. Something I wonít repeat.
    Not ragging on you. But why? Your reasons going from Hillary to McCain?

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    No one is blaming Bernie voters on the whole, but they played a small part though. The majority of it was all on Hillary. Yet Warren doesn't come close to having the same roadblocks so stop crapping on her just because you're Bernie fawning falls on deaf ears here.
    Last edited by Slap Shot; 10-05-2019 at 11:26 AM.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Itís also important context to remember that going into the booths in 2008, Obama was polling around +9 and we were coming off a very unpopular R administration. There wasnít nearly the same urgency for people to toe the party line. In 2016, anyone remotely left-leaning (or remotely sane) should have been stampeding to the polls in support of Hillary. So some Appalachian (read: racist) union coal miners didnít vote for the black man - so what? Two wrongs donít make a right; Bernie bros who didnít vote for Hillary can definitely still be called out for being stupid.

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    Post Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Calling us "Bernie Bros" and blaming us for Clinton's loss doesn't exactly make us want to support your candidate. I was told - literally told - by Clinton supporters that they didn't want my vote. I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.

    But let's rehash the 2016 election because that is sure to build party unity and defeat Sniffles. 👍

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Stein voters are more to blame if you ask me.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    No one is blaming Bernie voters on the whole, but they played a small part though. The majority of it was all on Hillary. Yet Warren doesn't come close to having the same roadblocks so stop crapping on her just because you're Bernie fawning falls on deaf ears here.
    Please point to one negative thing I have said about Elizabeth Warren.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Stein voters are more to blame if you ask me.
    Stein voters are the worst. Had two old co workers I had to mute on facebook because they threw her **** around as soon as Bernie endorsed Hillary. One has spent the rest of the last three years going full anti vaccines. I'd just drop her but I get more entertainment calling antivaxxers stupid.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    Stein voters are the worst. Had two old co workers I had to mute on facebook because they threw her **** around as soon as Bernie endorsed Hillary. One has spent the rest of the last three years going full anti vaccines. I'd just drop her but I get more entertainment calling antivaxxers stupid.
    antivax

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    Stein voters are the worst. Had two old co workers I had to mute on facebook because they threw her **** around as soon as Bernie endorsed Hillary. One has spent the rest of the last three years going full anti vaccines. I'd just drop her but I get more entertainment calling antivaxxers stupid.
    Ugh...not to mention Stein was a Russian Bot too.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Not ragging on you. But why? Your reasons going from Hillary to McCain?
    Thatís a great question. Iíve gone over it so many times in my head since the 2012 election where I enthusiastically voted for Obama.

    I think the answer I ultimately come to each time is that I was 23 in 2008. I was fresh out of college and didnít know my *** from my elbow. I also was a freshly picked white, upper middle class, college-educated male engineer. Many (most?) of us go through a strong libertarian or even conservative phase, especially out of college. I was smack dab in the middle of that phase. I consumed a lot of Fox News and it really eats away at your compass like an acid. Makes it brittle and weak. It took several years to find my morals again. I remembered that I had to actually use my brain instead of letting it rot watching schmucks like OíReilly. I also had to rediscover the real meaning of unbiased and independent. Fox does an excellent job convincing its viewers that independent really means conservative. I also had to remove the tarnish on words like liberal and socialism.

    Oddly enough, I started to watch a lot of Lawrence OíDonnell and Keith Olbermann around this time and started posting more in the Cafe. I still remember Olbermann showing video of Palin standing in front of the turkey head mashing machine, blood everywhere, and it was just an eye-opening moment. The cafe also started to make me question the beliefs I had at the time. Especially the more noted liberal posters here. Just didnít happen early enough.

    Now that you have my background, it makes it easier to see why the socialist obummer was going to come and steal my hard earned money. I really liked McCain, still do, but I despised Pailin. I thought that was a horrific pick. But she was a secondary to the hatred I had for people like Franken and Obama. It had nothing to do with race and everything to do with socialism being pejorative. Clinton didnít represent that.

    I do remember voting for a lot of democrats during this phase too, senate definitely. I donít think I voted for Bachman during this time, but I suppose itís also possible I just repressed that memory. But I still donít think I did.

    I was a not so good person back then. Iíve grown a lot.

    Edit: lol. Bingo. Found it.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TIB3IZ7A7X8
    Last edited by dxmnkd316; 10-05-2019 at 11:51 AM.

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    Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem all that smart to structure an entire analysis based on "one study."

    The whole argument seems pretty pointless to me, but presumably educated people continuing to throw out this 25% number with such certainty is especially strange

  20. #20

    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

    Quote Originally Posted by aparch View Post
    Here's the thing... *Where* were these 10% Bernie Bros voting? Were they in Florida, Michigan and Pennsylvania? If its 10% spread across the US, that's .2% per state on average.

    Less Bernie Bros voted for Trump per state than everyone who voted for green party candidates.
    Based on the article posted by ticapnews, it broke down as follows:

    Michigan: 8% (or an estimated 47,915 Sanders-Trump voters (in a state with a margin of 10,704))
    Pennsylvania: 16% (or an estimated 117,100 Sanders-Trump voters (in a state with a margin of 44,292))
    Wisconsin: 9% (or an estimated 51,317 Sanders-Trump voters (in a state with a margin of 22,748))

    So...yeah.

    Also, it was 12% of Sanders voters, not 10%...at least according to the article.
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