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Thread: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    it means the Liberals stayed home again anyways which means they get what they deserve
    I wish you would stop repeating this debunked claim. We did not lose in 2016 because "the liberals stayed home." We lost in 2016 because we nominated the only candidate more repulsive than Dump.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    @RyanGidurski According to @NateSilver538's 538, today is the first time that Trump has a higher overall approval rating than President Obama at the same point in their presidencies https://t.co/epabjB87Rt
    That is a rather vague mischaracterization of the numbers...and btw it is wrong.

    On Day 984 Obama dropped to 42.8% approval. That is where Trump is now. Trump isnt higher they are the same. Now, even that seems troubling until you realize that is almost all on Obama taking a dip after he peaked at over 52% 4 months earlier. 3 months after that he was back over 48% and still climbing. (he would hit 53% in the next year)

    Meanwhile Trump has been hovering between 39-42% since a year into his presidency. In fact, 42.8% is one of the 3 the HIGHEST approval rating he has had since March 14th, 2017 when he was at 44.8%. This is not the mark of some great upward trend or anything...look at the trend line it is always the same. (looks like the brainwaves of a man in a coma...ironic)

    So while yes technically this is the first time the numbers are the same, in truth that is cause Obama's numbers crashed for a bit. The truly important factor isnt that Trump equaled Obama it is that it took one of Trump's best polling days (top 2-3 after the inauguration bubble deflated) to reach the levels of approval on Obama's worst polling day. That is how disapproved of Trump is. This is like when the Gophers beat Alabama in a bowl game years ago. Sure Alabama was a shell of what it had been (and would soon return to) and was coming off probation and playing in a mediocre bowl but you can bet the locals loved saying it cause it sounded good. If you actually analyze it though it was not a very impressive feat.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    It's neither vague nor a mischaracterization. It is the exact numerical truth. It doesn't carry any interpretation except that which people put on it. A fact is a fact, full stop.

    It is important for all of us to remember that the partisan numbers in this country are impervious to the events happening around us. This is a 50/50 country and it will remain one for the forseeable future. The right has become decoupled from reality. It does not matter what Dump or the BVPS did or does, they will have the same number of people behind them on Election Day.

    That's the message: that politics isn't rational, it's emotional. Look at the righties here bending themselves into pretzels not to admit to us or themselves what their party is. Every one of them will vote straight ticket R on Election Day, not because they are evil or stupid, but because their political decisions are not connected to reality.

    This is VERY important to remember.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I wish you would stop repeating this debunked claim. We did not lose in 2016 because "the liberals stayed home." We lost in 2016 because we nominated the only candidate more repulsive than Dump.
    Uh huh...so where did the missing votes go?

    Are you justifying their refusal to vote Dem because of the candidate or are you literally saying they went out and voted because the first is an argument you can make (I will argue against it but at least it is something you can say and not look stupid) whereas the second you cannot. The number of people who didnt vote or voted third party is what swang the election.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Uh huh...so where did the missing votes go?

    Are you justifying their refusal to vote Dem because of the candidate or are you literally saying they went out and voted because the first is an argument you can make (I will argue against it but at least it is something you can say and not look stupid) whereas the second you cannot. The number of people who didnt vote or voted third party is what swang the election.
    We have been over this a million times. You are talking complete rubbish. Maybe uno or dx has the patience to correct you this time; I don't.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    It's neither vague nor a mischaracterization. It is the exact numerical truth. It doesn't carry any interpretation except that which people put on it. A fact is a fact, full stop.

    It is important for all of us to remember that the partisan numbers in this country are impervious to the events happening around us. This is a 50/50 country and it will remain one for the forseeable future. The right has become decoupled from reality. It does not matter what Dump or the BVPS did or does, they will have the same number of people behind them on Election Day.

    That's the message: that politics isn't rational, it's emotional. Look at the righties here bending themselves into pretzels not to admit to us or themselves what their party is. Every one of them will vote straight ticket R on Election Day, not because they are evil or stupid, but because their political decisions are not connected to reality.

    This is VERY important to remember.
    If joe is going to post that tweet in his concern trolling manner (which was his point) then I am going to tell the truth behind the numbers. The numbers dont say what the tweet says they do and they definitely dont say what the tweet implies they do. Context is needed...you cant just throw out random numbers and leave it at that. We are smart, we are educated, and we can tell that 42.8 /> 42.8

    (yes I am sure if they parse it out to a few more decimals he might be correct, but that is statistically insignificant for this argument)

    And this country is NOT a 50/50 country. It is 65-35 country so lets stop dumbing everything down for the 35%.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
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    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    It's a 35-35-30 country. Parts of that 30 is indistinguishable from the 35 on either side
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Swang: slang for showily steering a car side to side while driving. It can also be slang for chilling out and feeling good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    Swang: slang for showily steering a car side to side while driving. It can also be slang for chilling out and feeling good.
    In Michigan this is also known as "white line, yellow line," and is probable cause to be pulled over for DUI.

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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    It's a 35-35-30 country. Parts of that 30 is indistinguishable from the 35 on either side
    Pretty much.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    We have been over this a million times. You are talking complete rubbish. Maybe uno or dx has the patience to correct you this time; I don't.
    What are you talking about? I dont think you and I have ever discussed this and certainly not a million times. (this is usually you and Rover I think) I think you have me confused with someone else you dont listen to

    But just to prove a point:

    Michigan voting totals:

    2012 - 4,679,825 (Obama took 54%)
    2016 - 4,548,382 (Trump too 47.5% Clinton 42.27%)

    That is a difference of 131,443. Now that is a rather small number obviously and in any other election would not be a noticeable or a concerning dip EXCEPT those people not voting is the difference in who won. Trump won the state by just over 10k votes. Now you could argue some Righties stayed home, but seeing as Trump got more votes in the state than Romney did (and McCain before him) that doesnt seem likely. So that means either the Dem voters didnt vote or went third party. (Stein got 51k votes...how the heck is that even possible) Hell just check articles in Michigan papers from the time...it was about how the Dems in Michigan didnt turn out. (or you have to admit some voters flipped completely which I know happened in Minnesota)

    Now you are right, they (and others) hated Clinton. Hell it is why you and I hated having to vote for her. Difference is we still did. And I know Hillary got more than enough votes to win and I know there were other factors at play that have zero to do with the candidates (and everything to do with screwing people out of voting) and I know her strategy was so stupid a 5 year old could pick it apart...but she still could have won if they Dems in the major metro areas had turned out like they did for Obama.

    Look I wont waste your time it isnt worth arguing anymore. A million things went wrong to get us here and no one factor is more important than the GOP being the enemy. Arguing over the other details is like arguing over which play was the worst part of a game when you lose by 40 points Chances are EVERYTHING is part of the problem

    edit to add: I forgot Michigan was that close...I was so mad that night because the reports out of areas like Flint were showing Dem turnout lower than normal.
    Last edited by Handyman; 09-30-2019 at 12:58 PM.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    It's a 35-35-30 country. Parts of that 30 is indistinguishable from the 35 on either side
    Yeah that is probably better.

    tica,

    Doesnt it feel like someone is driving this country that way
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
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    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    trump-savior

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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Math
    We can rehash the 2016 election all we want. The turnout was lower in several states. Was that voter suppression or just the side effect of having the two most unpopular candidates in American history on the ballot at the same time? While pundits point to the Jill Stein election totals, they often overlook the vote share of Gary Johnson. It's also a fool's errand to say that every single one of those people who voted for a third party candidate would have voted for Hillary. Finally, one cannot overlook the fact that in states like Pennsylvania and Michigan Sniffles got stronger than expected support from union members because he claimed he could bring their jobs back. It was a lie and we warned them it was a lie, but they believed and voted accordingly. The election was close enough that it all mattered and Sniffles won the electoral votes.

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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    What are you talking about? I dont think you and I have ever discussed this and certainly not a million times. (this is usually you and Rover I think)
    I meant "we" as the Cafe. I think it typically is Rover making this strawman argument and then the rest of us taking turns rebutting it. In any case, it's all been said a million times. My stance is that neither liberals nor centrists (warmongering or otherwise) are to blame. We have to be united to beat the Nazis. Once the Dems are safely in control of all three branches with a supermajority in the Senate, and we've overturned everything Dump, Mitch, both Bushes, Newt, and Reagan did, then we can pick at each other. Until then it only helps the orcs.
    Last edited by Kepler; 09-30-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I meant "we" as the Cafe. I think it typically is Rover making this strawman argument and then the rest of us taking turns rebutting it. In any case, it's all been said a million times. My stance is that neither liberals nor centrists (warmongering or otherwise) are to blame. We have to be united to beat the Nazis. Once the Dems are safely in control of all three branches with a supermajority in the Senate, and we've overturned everything Dump, Mitch, both Bushes, Newt, and Reagan did, then we can pick at each other. Until then it only helps the orcs.
    I'm glad you've come around but it sure would have been nice if you could have had this epiphany several years ago and spared us 6 months of misogyny and wacko conspiracy theories in the midst of a general election campaign. It'd be easier to take you seriously if you'd own up to that sometime.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I meant "we" as the Cafe. I think it typically is Rover making this strawman argument and then the rest of us taking turns rebutting it. In any case, it's all been said a million times. My stance is that neither liberals nor centrists (warmongering or otherwise) are to blame. We have to be united to beat the Nazis. Once the Dems are safely in control of all three branches with a supermajority in the Senate, and we've overturned everything Dump, Mitch, both Bushes, Newt, and Reagan did, then we can pick at each other. Until then it only helps the orcs.
    In what fantasy world do you see Democrats with a supermajority in the senate AND in control of the Judicial branch of government? We're more likely to see a Republican supermajority in the senate than a Democratic one and the Judicial branch is gone for a generation.

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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    In what fantasy world do you see Democrats with a supermajority in the senate AND in control of the Judicial branch of government?
    That's kinda my point. We must hang together or we shall hang separately.

    Though it actually is possible, albeit unlikely. The BVPS has no feedback mechanism to self-correct if and when things go down hill electorally. They have no idea they are insane, so they may continue to double and triple down on their terrorism as things slip away. I can imagine a scenario in which they become a regional rural party only winning districts in the bottom third of population density and education. With no capacity for change, and Human Centipede sutured to the anus of their radical base, they could wind up dominating 15 states, splitting 10 states, and being blown out in the other 25 states. That's a recipe for hovering around 40 Senators and occasionally slipping into superminority.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    It has begun.

    From the first newspaper editorials calling for Dump's impeachment to the first newspaper stories about resign/pardon deals: 48 hours.

    Promise him immunity.

    The second he resigns indict him.

    Nazis cannot be bargained with, they must be destroyed. Ask Chamberlain.
    Last edited by Kepler; 09-30-2019 at 02:11 PM.
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    Re: POTUS 45.58: Admit it, those lights are making you look orange too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    It has begun.

    From the first newspaper editorials calling for Dump's impeachment to the first newspaper stories about resign/pardon deals: 48 hours.

    Promise him immunity.

    The second he resigns indict him.

    Nazis cannot be bargained with they must be destroyed, ask Chamberlain.
    He's so cheap about getting competent legal representation you could easily cut him a federal deal and he'll forget that the states will want their pound of flesh.
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