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  • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Yes, they are saying Taxi Driver, and that makes total sense. Now, to see how it's done with this particular character...hoo boy.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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    • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

      Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
      There are so many thoughts circling through my head right now. That was deeply disturbing. Perhaps the most disturbing film I have ever watched. The terror is psychological, not the slasher kind we've gotten used to. There are a couple of moments of brutal - and I do mean brutal - violence, but the vast majority of the film is witnessing an already scarred psyche descend into madness.

      I have read how this film glorifies that madness and the associated violence. I would disagree. I remember when Pulp Fiction was released there were many who claimed the film glorified drug use. I can't imagine anyone watching the scene where Uma Thurman overdoses and nearly dies and thinking, "That looks cool! I gotta get me some of that!" Likewise, we can clearly see the transformation of this already fragile mind into a homicidal maniac. The issue is not that it makes this look attractive. The issue is that society is already at this point which makes the story that much scarier.

      Want to see the Joker in real life? Just turn on the evening news. His handiwork is evident in every mass shooting our nation suffers. The film doesn't glorify this violence - it holds a mirror up to American society and shows us our reality. There WILL be people who go on a murder spree and claim this movie inspired them. Or talking heads will say this was their motivation. Don't buy it for a second. Those matches were already lit. They were going to kill people regardless, but they will use this as an excuse, as a way to become famous by tying their violence to a piece of popular culture.

      I'm really struggling to come up with a score for this. I thought it was brilliant. It might be the film of the year. Yet watching it was so uncomfortable I cannot with a good conscience say this is a must-see. It depends on each person. For posterity I'll give it a 9/10 but you'll have to decide if you want to subject yourself to this piece of cinema. I both want to see it again and simultaneously wish I had never seen it in the first place.
      Your thoughts seem to be what a lot of people feel, including critics who talk about how great it is in one breathe and then in the next pan it for almost the same reasons they loved it. It seems the film is not a binary "yes or no" on the likeability matrix.

      Thanks for the write up
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
      -INCH

      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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      • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        Your thoughts seem to be what a lot of people feel, including critics who talk about how great it is in one breathe and then in the next pan it for almost the same reasons they loved it. It seems the film is not a binary "yes or no" on the likeability matrix.

        Thanks for the write up
        I think we get what he is saying. I mean, "Kids" and "Requiem For A Dream (director's cut)" are AWESOME movies that I never want to see again. Ever. EVER. Quality, but man, they are disturbing.

        Other movies might include American Psycho, Schindler's List, even Saving Private Ryan. Disturbing in different forms, but....
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

        Comment


        • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

          Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
          There are so many thoughts circling through my head right now. That was deeply disturbing. Perhaps the most disturbing film I have ever watched. The terror is psychological, not the slasher kind we've gotten used to. There are a couple of moments of brutal - and I do mean brutal - violence, but the vast majority of the film is witnessing an already scarred psyche descend into madness.

          I have read how this film glorifies that madness and the associated violence. I would disagree. I remember when Pulp Fiction was released there were many who claimed the film glorified drug use. I can't imagine anyone watching the scene where Uma Thurman overdoses and nearly dies and thinking, "That looks cool! I gotta get me some of that!" Likewise, we can clearly see the transformation of this already fragile mind into a homicidal maniac. The issue is not that it makes this look attractive. The issue is that society is already at this point which makes the story that much scarier.

          Want to see the Joker in real life? Just turn on the evening news. His handiwork is evident in every mass shooting our nation suffers. The film doesn't glorify this violence - it holds a mirror up to American society and shows us our reality. There WILL be people who go on a murder spree and claim this movie inspired them. Or talking heads will say this was their motivation. Don't buy it for a second. Those matches were already lit. They were going to kill people regardless, but they will use this as an excuse, as a way to become famous by tying their violence to a piece of popular culture.

          I'm really struggling to come up with a score for this. I thought it was brilliant. It might be the film of the year. Yet watching it was so uncomfortable I cannot with a good conscience say this is a must-see. It depends on each person. For posterity I'll give it a 9/10 but you'll have to decide if you want to subject yourself to this piece of cinema. I both want to see it again and simultaneously wish I had never seen it in the first place.
          Dang...
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          Originally posted by SanTropez
          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
          Originally posted by Kepler
          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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          • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

            Originally posted by Handyman View Post
            Your thoughts seem to be what a lot of people feel, including critics who talk about how great it is in one breathe and then in the next pan it for almost the same reasons they loved it. It seems the film is not a binary "yes or no" on the likeability matrix.

            Thanks for the write up
            Likability is going to be a major point of contention. As far as the story goes - ****ing brilliant. Todd Phillips crafted a masterpiece. The Academy can save everyone the trouble and just ship the Oscar to Joaquin Phoenix now. His performance is phenomenal. It may be heresy, but it even outshines Heath Ledger's Oscar winning performance. But likable? No. This film was not likable in the least. It is going to be divisive, which I think was the whole point. Maybe, just maybe, we use this to jump start a national conversation about the mentally unstable, about income inequality, about that thin veneer that separates our polite society from our baser animal instincts. But I have little faith this will spark a serious discussion. People will shape this to fit their own agenda and it will become just so much noise to clutter up our daily lives.

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            • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

              One of my friends in another forum asked if I would recommend skipping the movie if you're "not in the right frame of mind." YES! If you've had a bad day (or week, or month, or life) then go see something that'll make you laugh. This isn't it. I've been down a dark path and if I had seen this movie then...I don't even want to think about it.

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              • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
                Likability is going to be a major point of contention. As far as the story goes - ****ing brilliant. Todd Phillips crafted a masterpiece. The Academy can save everyone the trouble and just ship the Oscar to Joaquin Phoenix now. His performance is phenomenal. It may be heresy, but it even outshines Heath Ledger's Oscar winning performance. But likable? No. This film was not likable in the least. It is going to be divisive, which I think was the whole point. Maybe, just maybe, we use this to jump start a national conversation about the mentally unstable, about income inequality, about that thin veneer that separates our polite society from our baser animal instincts. But I have little faith this will spark a serious discussion. People will shape this to fit their own agenda and it will become just so much noise to clutter up our daily lives.
                Why don’t you keep your Hollywood mouths shut and stick to movies?




                (I deeply hope you’re right)
                Code:
                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
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                Originally posted by SanTropez
                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                Originally posted by Kepler
                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                Comment


                • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                  Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                  Why don’t you keep your Hollywood mouths shut and stick to movies?
                  Precisely.

                  ETA: Don't get me wrong. This can easily be reframed by the Left as well as the Right. It shouldn't be. It could be much more than that. But...

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                  • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                    I read a few RT-ized review summaries and it’s hard to make out what to think. I trust your reviews pretty much unequivocally. So I’m going to see this (and I appreciate your warnings).

                    But the RT summaries have all the “smart” critics (Slate, Atlantic, NYT, NPR, WaPo, New Yorker, AP, etc.) all saying the same thing: this movie is nothing; it’s garbage; it’s “faux social commentary”. Which both makes me wonder whether so many top reviewers could be wrong or if they just somehow don’t get it. Usually they don’t all struggle to not get it, not all of them at once.

                    Again, I actually believe comic book character movies are allowed to make social commentary, so that probably takes out at least Slate and the New Yorker. The NYT can’t get anything right these days, so nix them. AP probably has an issue with violence in general, and it’s essentially mcmedia for the masses, so they get a pass. That leaves WaPo, NPR, and the Atlantic. Why would all of them hate the movie so much? Atlantic and NPR at least think about the stores they publish and don’t really have oxen to gore.

                    How on earth could all the smarties hate this movie so much?
                    Code:
                    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                    BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                    Originally posted by SanTropez
                    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                    Originally posted by Kepler
                    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                    Comment


                    • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                      I read a few RT-ized review summaries and it’s hard to make out what to think. I trust your reviews pretty much unequivocally. So I’m going to see this (and I appreciate your warnings).

                      But the RT summaries have all the “smart” critics (Slate, Atlantic, NYT, NPR, WaPo, New Yorker, AP, etc.) all saying the same thing: this movie is nothing; it’s garbage; it’s “faux social commentary”. Which both makes me wonder whether so many top reviewers could be wrong or if they just somehow don’t get it. Usually they don’t all struggle to not get it, not all of them at once.

                      Again, I actually believe comic book character movies are allowed to make social commentary, so that probably takes out at least Slate and the New Yorker. The NYT can’t get anything right these days, so nix them. AP probably has an issue with violence in general, and it’s essentially mcmedia for the masses, so they get a pass. That leaves WaPo, NPR, and the Atlantic. Why would all of them hate the movie so much? Atlantic and NPR at least think about the stores they publish and don’t really have oxen to gore.

                      How on earth could all the smarties hate this movie so much?
                      This is a very easy film to not like. I don't like it. I see it as a diamond fitted into the world's ugliest, most gauche, ring. It's much easier to dismiss this as a bad movie than to face the reality that this was not only a quality film, but a spot on look at society today.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                        I read a few RT-ized review summaries and it’s hard to make out what to think. I trust your reviews pretty much unequivocally. So I’m going to see this (and I appreciate your warnings).

                        But the RT summaries have all the “smart” critics (Slate, Atlantic, NYT, NPR, WaPo, New Yorker, AP, etc.) all saying the same thing: this movie is nothing; it’s garbage; it’s “faux social commentary”. Which both makes me wonder whether so many top reviewers could be wrong or if they just somehow don’t get it. Usually they don’t all struggle to not get it, not all of them at once.

                        Again, I actually believe comic book character movies are allowed to make social commentary, so that probably takes out at least Slate and the New Yorker. The NYT can’t get anything right these days, so nix them. AP probably has an issue with violence in general, and it’s essentially mcmedia for the masses, so they get a pass. That leaves WaPo, NPR, and the Atlantic. Why would all of them hate the movie so much? Atlantic and NPR at least think about the stores they publish and don’t really have oxen to gore.

                        How on earth could all the smarties hate this movie so much?
                        I could give you reasons but it really isnt worth it. Truth be told this is not the type of film that American audiences are gonna fall all over themselves to praise. There is a reason the Toronto Film Festival was divided about it but Venice gave it The Golden Lion and 10 minute standing ovations.

                        Now you could make the argument it is timing, or that it is because the film is about a comic book character so they expect something different, but only they know. I have my theories but they are just speculation. I kind of knew after the Venice Film Festival that things were going to go negative in the US though I didnt think it would be to this degree.

                        In the end, as always, I will judge it based on my own set of standards, though I kind of feel that the way tica described it is how I feel about it. I have followed the movie since it was announced so I have a pretty good idea what I am in for. I also know how sadistic and evil the Joker can actually be in the comics so there is also that.
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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                        • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                          I'm curious to see how the masses react to this movie.

                          Unfortunately I do think there are going to be a bunch of people that think this will be a "comic book movie" which it clearly is not. Its arthouse style of commentary has me hesitant to see it, but at the same time, I feel that I probably need to see it to make myself face the questions and points it raises.
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                          • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                            If people think it is a comic book movie they need to start paying more attention to the world around them
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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                            • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              If people think it is a comic book movie they need to start paying more attention to the world around them
                              Alamo Drafthouse put up a sign to warn people this isn't a Batman movie.

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                              • Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

                                I have a feeling Trumpies are going to hate it because they'll assume it's social commentary aimed in their direction, a few liberal snowflakes will be taken aback by the violence, comic book fans will have their own subgroups that are divided to varying degrees that I'm not in tune with enough to break down further, and people like me that are open to just about anything that will give the film an honest look going into it with no preconceived notions of what to expect.

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