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Thread: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    Studios are more than happy to take that bet. Even the hated Ghostbusters reimagining or whatever it was made $250M on a budget of $145M. You may not like them but studios love the green they make.
    Actually if it only made $250 million off that budget it didnt make much at all. (and by some metrics it lost it) Conventional wisdom is you have to double the budget to make money after you factor is advertising and the split between the studio and the theater. It is actually worse if any of the money came from overseas. It is actually pretty ridiculous when it comes to big budget films.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Actually if it only made $250 million off that budget it didnt make much at all. (and by some metrics it lost it) Conventional wisdom is you have to double the budget to make money after you factor is advertising and the split between the studio and the theater. It is actually worse if any of the money came from overseas. It is actually pretty ridiculous when it comes to big budget films.
    I do understand how the business works. I also know that with Hollywood accounting anything is possible. I remember John Cleese giving an interview and saying the only film Monty Python made with Hollywood was coincidentally the only film Monty Python ever made that didn't turn a profit, hence the performers never received a share of the nonexistent profits. Fact remains that if all these reboots and remakes didn't produce profits the studios wouldn't keep making them. If people were REALLY unhappy with them they would fail at the box office and the studios would find something else.

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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Actually if it only made $250 million off that budget it didnt make much at all. (and by some metrics it lost it) Conventional wisdom is you have to double the budget to make money after you factor is advertising and the split between the studio and the theater.
    I always assumed advertising was part of the budget.

    Based on frequency of ads I'm going to guess no Marvel movie has ever actually made money.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I always assumed advertising was part of the budget.

    Based on frequency of ads I'm going to guess no Marvel movie has ever actually made money.
    Amazingly, they've combined for a grand total of $17 profit. They're gonna get a pizza at Chuck E. Cheese's.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I always assumed advertising was part of the budget.

    Based on frequency of ads I'm going to guess no Marvel movie has ever actually made money.
    Advertising/marketing can be well over $100m for big, tentpole movies. It's figured that Endgame and Infinity War needed roughly $750m - $1B each to become profitable for the Mouse House. Solo with it's $392m gross didn't make much, if at all.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    BTW, add Tank Girl to the growing list of remakes. It will star Margot Robbie.

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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    Advertising/marketing can be well over $100m for big, tentpole movies. It's figured that Endgame and Infinity War needed roughly $750m - $1B each to become profitable for the Mouse House. Solo with it's $392m gross didn't make much, if at all.
    This sounds a lot like what led to the death of the original studio system: enormous budgets and small margins unless you have a hit means one flop can bankrupt a studio (Cleopatra, Heaven's Gate).

    If I'm an investor I want steady profit, not feast/famine. I wonder if the mega-media companies are starting to have problems finding banks. I mean, unless they own the banks now.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    BTW, add Tank Girl to the growing list of remakes. It will star Margot Robbie.
    That is a crime.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    Advertising/marketing can be well over $100m for big, tentpole movies. It's figured that Endgame and Infinity War needed roughly $750m - $1B each to become profitable for the Mouse House. Solo with it's $392m gross didn't make much, if at all.
    Solo lost Disney around $75M. However, having heard several of Bob Iger's conference calls, while disappointed with the film's lack of success, the company is quite pleased with all the associated merchandise it sold. Disney usually is. That's one of the reasons there will likely be a Power Rangers sequel. Even though the movie didn't do gangbusters ($143M on a $105M budget) the sale of merchandise more than made up for it. Sales of action figures alone shot up close to 200%. In some cases that's what movies are: commercials for other merchandise that you can buy.

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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    In some cases that's what movies are: commercials for other merchandise that you can buy.
    I have read that is all kids movies and TV shows are for. They're ads you pay to see.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    I do understand how the business works. I also know that with Hollywood accounting anything is possible. I remember John Cleese giving an interview and saying the only film Monty Python made with Hollywood was coincidentally the only film Monty Python ever made that didn't turn a profit, hence the performers never received a share of the nonexistent profits. Fact remains that if all these reboots and remakes didn't produce profits the studios wouldn't keep making them. If people were REALLY unhappy with them they would fail at the box office and the studios would find something else.
    Yes Hollywood accounting is even dumber when you take in the lies the studio tells. The bigger the studio the more they friggin screw with the numbers. (i.e. Disney and WB are two of the worst)

    Reboots are successful...just saying Ghostbusters wasnt which is why they dumped it and went back to the old timeline.

    Lets be honest even critics often prefer reboots to "new ideas" especially in the age of the Bloggers. The aggregate sites are making it worse as well. Taste is dead.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I have read that is all kids movies and TV shows are for. They're ads you pay to see.
    I know with Ratatouille, there were no product tie-ins because food companies didn't want to be associated with a rat.

    I also didn't see a lot of products associated with Inside Out.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    This sounds a lot like what led to the death of the original studio system: enormous budgets and small margins unless you have a hit means one flop can bankrupt a studio (Cleopatra, Heaven's Gate).

    If I'm an investor I want steady profit, not feast/famine. I wonder if the mega-media companies are starting to have problems finding banks. I mean, unless they own the banks now.
    I don't know the details behind the scenes at other studios, but I am a Disney shareholder so I know some of what they disclose to investors. While movies make a lot of money, it actually pales in comparison to what Disney makes at the parks. As I recall, the entire movie studio produced an $8Bn profit while the parks produced $25Bn (for a 6-month window). And that was a robust time for the studio, with a Star Wars saga and two Marvel films. While the studio may be hit by a box office failure or a bad release slate, the parks keep producing steady revenue with almost no deviation. That's where the money is. Plus, any time the studio fails at the box office it can just look at merchandising revenue and regain that Jiminy Cricket spark of confidence.

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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    I don't know the details behind the scenes at other studios, but I am a Disney shareholder so I know some of what they disclose to investors. While movies make a lot of money, it actually pales in comparison to what Disney makes at the parks. As I recall, the entire movie studio produced an $8Bn profit while the parks produced $25Bn (for a 6-month window). And that was a robust time for the studio, with a Star Wars saga and two Marvel films. While the studio may be hit by a box office failure or a bad release slate, the parks keep producing steady revenue with almost no deviation. That's where the money is. Plus, any time the studio fails at the box office it can just look at merchandising revenue and regain that Jiminy Cricket spark of confidence.
    I was thinking the movies were just part of their diverse holdings. Makes sense. They're Conagra for entertainment.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    This sounds a lot like what led to the death of the original studio system: enormous budgets and small margins unless you have a hit means one flop can bankrupt a studio (Cleopatra, Heaven's Gate).

    If I'm an investor I want steady profit, not feast/famine. I wonder if the mega-media companies are starting to have problems finding banks. I mean, unless they own the banks now.
    Nah they have tons of ways to make money which are more profitable in many ways. For comic book films or Star Wars merchandising is huge. Also the ridiculous amount of product placement. Some of the movies have technically turned a profit before they even get released. (that is where the Hollywood lying comes in since that gets put in different categories)

    Plus remember the studios are part of huge corporate entities now. Movies are one arm. ATT/WB owns HBO (not to mention arguably the best TV production studio out there) and Disney has ABC. Universal is owned by Comcast. They all have built in markets for extra revenue not to mention large amounts of free advertising. That is why ESPN always pimps the next big Marvel flick
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    The other segment for movies that hasn't been mentioned is the ancillary market after the theatrical release. It may be significantly down the line, but that revenue will eventually turn the books black on a lot of movies.
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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    They call it "corporate synergy" we call it "Hey, that's a monopoly!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    I don't know the details behind the scenes at other studios, but I am a Disney shareholder so I know some of what they disclose to investors. While movies make a lot of money, it actually pales in comparison to what Disney makes at the parks. As I recall, the entire movie studio produced an $8Bn profit while the parks produced $25Bn (for a 6-month window). And that was a robust time for the studio, with a Star Wars saga and two Marvel films. While the studio may be hit by a box office failure or a bad release slate, the parks keep producing steady revenue with almost no deviation. That's where the money is. Plus, any time the studio fails at the box office it can just look at merchandising revenue and regain that Jiminy Cricket spark of confidence.
    If I had to guess, based upon experience, itís because they sell a lot of merch at the parks. Not just ears and T-shirts though, more like the high end designs with backpacks, jewelry, artist prints and such.

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    Re: Movies 51 - Rise of the Frozen Joker: Chapter II: Dark Fate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    If I had to guess, based upon experience, it’s because they sell a lot of merch at the parks. Not just ears and T-shirts though, more like the high end designs with backpacks, jewelry, artist prints and such.
    In Florida, hospitality probably has stupid high margins as well. Think of all the lodging options you have.

    That's just one printing press cranking out $$$. The Mouse has several running 24/7, 365....
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