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Thread: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
    Players also have to face the media when they screw up.
    No ref ever does and most of the time the leagues cover for them.
    Refs are held to a different standard. Again...it may not be right but that's how it is. I do not and will not feel sorry for them.
    What do you want from an official addressing the media? "I missed the call."

    How would you feel about this quote: "I missed the call on ____ play. But in reality, **your team** ran 94 offensive plays and 104 on defense. If they scored one more TD on any of those, my mistake is a moot one." The official can pick any number of non-conversions during a game and use that to cancel out their ONE mistake. Cause that is what you'll get if you start having officials address the media.

    Reality is that in the major sports, officials legitimately have their life threatened over mistakes. If they address the media and make a single misstep in their speaking, that is throwing a tanker of fuel on an already out of control blaze. There is no out as an official. Half of the world will think your incompetent, no matter the call. That is another factor in this. Again, there is no way that an official can talk their way out of a mistake without having their life threatened. That is how sad/pathetic our current sports culture has become.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    While this is possible it also sounds a lot like Dump saying "everybody does it" whenever he gets caught.
    I read a pretty good book on the NBA scandal that Rover is referring to, and I also recall reference made about an ability to predict outcomes based in part on known biases of the officials working the game.

    That "science" is very real, and isn't just known to Tim Donaghy, the NBA ref who fixed the games. It is well known by the Las Vegas sports books and by the sharp money betting sports, as well as many others, I'm sure.

    HBO Real Sports did a segment a few years ago that referenced a study done of MLB home plate umpires balls and strike calls. First, the number of erroneous calls was pretty significant, like 20 or 30%. But when examined in terms of who they favored (home or visiting team), especially in the playoffs, the numbers were crazy. An ump might be wrong 20% of the time, but 80% of those instances would favor the home team.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
    You arent wrong...but that is the way it goes.
    They are expected to get it right...epecially when they also have the ability to use replay (which they screwed up on with a Lions catch)
    And it's not like the players get no scrutiny when they screw up.
    The big problem for me is no one ever knows what happens when these guys screw up that bad. Maybe that would lessen some of the howling if people actually knew there were consequences for these errors.
    Performance by officials are reviewed each and every week by the league.

    Most fans don't pay enough attention to know which set of officials, or which individual officials are assigned to the various games each week. The NFL will put their top performing officials into the highest profile games each week, and then promote them by giving their best officials games during the playoffs. The top two or three squads get a crack at the Super Bowl, depending upon a few factors.

    The underperforming groups tend to be assigned to the Jets, Lions, or Redskins games, and the worst performing individuals will find themselves without steady weekly assignments. Then at the end of the season, if the worst performers are below a certain threshold, they will be cut loose from the league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    What do you want from an official addressing the media? "I missed the call."

    How would you feel about this quote: "I missed the call on ____ play. But in reality, **your team** ran 94 offensive plays and 104 on defense. If they scored one more TD on any of those, my mistake is a moot one." The official can pick any number of non-conversions during a game and use that to cancel out their ONE mistake. Cause that is what you'll get if you start having officials address the media.

    Reality is that in the major sports, officials legitimately have their life threatened over mistakes. If they address the media and make a single misstep in their speaking, that is throwing a tanker of fuel on an already out of control blaze. There is no out as an official. Half of the world will think your incompetent, no matter the call. That is another factor in this. Again, there is no way that an official can talk their way out of a mistake without having their life threatened. That is how sad/pathetic our current sports culture has become.
    Again...you aren't wrong. But you also are the one who keeps wanting to compare players to refs.
    The players are held accountable by the media each week. You want them compared...then the same standards should apply.
    Players also get death threats. Blair Walsh did for missing a kick in a playoff game and ive heard of it happening to college kids too.
    And im sorry but this boo hoo woe is the refs thing doesn't fly with me. I'm not crushing a pee wee official here.. This is the NFL...the highest level of your profession...get it right. If not...then start adding replay to penalties.
    Again...the optics is what I'm talking about here
    ..perception is reality. And the perception this morning is the league has massive egg on its face amd deservedly so.
    Last edited by First Time, Long Time; 10-15-2019 at 12:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    Performance by officials are reviewed each and every week by the league.

    Most fans don't pay enough attention to know which set of officials, or which individual officials are assigned to the various games each week. The NFL will put their top performing officials into the highest profile games each week, and then promote them by giving their best officials games during the playoffs. The top two or three squads get a crack at the Super Bowl, depending upon a few factors.

    The underperforming groups tend to be assigned to the Jets, Lions, or Redskins games, and the worst performing individuals will find themselves without steady weekly assignments. Then at the end of the season, if the worst performers are below a certain threshold, they will be cut loose from the league.
    i am well aware of all of this.
    Again...im talking about optics.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
    Again...you aren't wrong. But you also are the one who keeps wanting to compare players to refs.
    The players are held accountable by the media each week. You want them compared...then the same standards should apply.
    And im sorry but this boo hoo woe is the refs thing doesn't fly with me. I'm not crushing a pee wee official here.. This is the NFL...the highest level of your profession...get it right. If not...then start adding replay to penalties.
    Again...the optics is what I'm talking about here
    ..perception is reality. And the perception this morning is the league has massive egg on its face amd deservedly so.
    The point you don't seem to grasp is that as far as officiating goes, this is literally the absolute best you can get. There literally is no one to replace the current crop of officials and get you a better product. The only way you can do this is that we just go full Video Ref and literally replay EVERY call made on the field and correct when needed (which will still not net 100% accuracy, as we've seen ). Hope you enjoy a 90 second break every 4-5 plays under this system.

    You are trying to apply an impossible standard to something that you will NEVER be happy with unless your team NEVER has a single call against them. That is the problem that you aren't willing to call yourself on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    The point you don't seem to grasp is that as far as officiating goes, this is literally the absolute best you can get. There literally is no one to replace the current crop of officials and get you a better product. The only way you can do this is that we just go full Video Ref and literally replay EVERY call made on the field and correct when needed (which will still not net 100% accuracy, as we've seen ). Hope you enjoy a 90 second break every 4-5 plays under this system.

    You are trying to apply an impossible standard to something that you will NEVER be happy with unless your team NEVER has a single call against them. That is the problem that you aren't willing to call yourself on.
    I'm fine with replay. Get it right.
    As for calling myself on anything...this isn't about me.
    Like I said....these are their optics...right or wrong they are supposed to get it right. That's the standard...and not getting it right will get them criticized.
    Welcome to the life of a big league official.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
    I'm fine with replay. Get it right.
    As for calling myself on anything...this isn't about me.
    Like I said....these are their optics...right or wrong they are supposed to get it right. That's the standard...and not getting it right will get them criticized.
    Welcome to the life of a big league official.
    And what about all the times that you call for their heads when they do get it right, but due to a lack of rules knowledge, mechanics knowledge, positioning, and general training, you are completely wrong? Seems like a 99%/1% scenario here. You want to jump on them for the 1% their wrong, but the just shrug off all the crap they will get, even though they are right.

    No job should allow someone to make threats on another person's life, even if it is in a joking manner. (not saying you personally made any threats. I've seen quite a few on FaceBook today however)
    It's never too early to start the Pre-game festivities

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    And what about all the times that you call for their heads when they do get it right, but due to a lack of rules knowledge, mechanics knowledge, positioning, and general training, you are completely wrong? Seems like a 99%/1% scenario here. You want to jump on them for the 1% their wrong, but the just shrug off all the crap they will get, even though they are right.

    No job should allow someone to make threats on another person's life, even if it is in a joking manner. (not saying you personally made any threats. I've seen quite a few on FaceBook today however)
    Even as a Lions fan, I'm tired of the base blaming the refs for poor play. It IS the Lions we're talking about, here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    And what about all the times that you call for their heads when they do get it right, but due to a lack of rules knowledge, mechanics knowledge, positioning, and general training, you are completely wrong? Seems like a 99%/1% scenario here. You want to jump on them for the 1% their wrong, but the just shrug off all the crap they will get, even though they are right.

    No job should allow someone to make threats on another person's life, even if it is in a joking manner. (not saying you personally made any threats. I've seen quite a few on FaceBook today however)
    Not my argument...nor will I argue it.
    I'm done here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    They lost to the Eagles at home on what was obviously pass interference and I don't remember anyone really talking about that call at all but yeah...the Packers get all the calls every week. Referees by nature do favor home teams, its natural to, but at the same time, they're not perfect and they deserve scrutiny but to claim the refs are rigging things is silly.
    Clay Matthews concurs.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    You are trying to apply an impossible standard to something that you will NEVER be happy with unless your team NEVER has a single call against them. That is the problem that you aren't willing to call yourself on.
    Ban all replay until an event has ended. Not just at the stadium but TV, streaming, the works.

    Make the event fully live.

    I would also ban all piped in music and advertising at the stadium and just allow the natural noise of the event to be the full atmosphere.

    #makesportsfunagain

    Officiate the best you can and get out of the way. If somebody gets f-cked by a bad call so be it. Make the games live again.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    The only people I have mentioned this to think I am insane, but I favor banning all replay until an event has ended. Not at the stadium, not on TV, not streaming.

    Make the event fully live.

    I would also ban all piped in music and advertising at the stadium and just allow the natural noise of the event to be the full atmosphere.

    #makesportsfunagain

    Officiate the best you can and get out of the way. If somebody gets f-cked by a bad call so be it. Make the games live again.
    That certainly is one option that isn't bad to me...the scrutiny we lay on them is unfair because we get the benefit of like 7 angles and slow motion. They're not reffing at that speed from multiple angles. I actually like this idea.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Better would be no refs. Anything goes.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    That certainly is one option that isn't bad to me...the scrutiny we lay on them is unfair because we get the benefit of like 7 angles and slow motion. They're not reffing at that speed from multiple angles. I actually like this idea.
    of course in the NFL, what will the broadcasters do with all the dead air time between plays if they can't show replays? NFL is quite boring if you remove that...
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    That certainly is one option that isn't bad to me...the scrutiny we lay on them is unfair because we get the benefit of like 7 angles and slow motion. They're not reffing at that speed from multiple angles. I actually like this idea.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    of course in the NFL, what will the broadcasters do with all the dead air time between plays if they can't show replays? NFL is quite boring if you remove that...
    Let the ambient noise come through. For some time I have advocated we go to a one person booth with just PBP. For TV I essentially want to return to 1950s sports broadcasting. Watch baseball games from that era -- it's spare and beautiful.

    None of the extra gunk is worth anything.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    One thing I think the NFL could do is reevaluate the sanction that applies to each violation. I would be in favor of reducing the penalty yards associated with each call, pretty much do away with any sort of automatic first down penalty other than perhaps the most egregious types of personal fouls, etc... Just have a bunch of three yard or five yard penalties.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    do away with any sort of automatic first down penalty other than perhaps the most egregious types of personal fouls, etc...
    I think this would turn 3rd and long into Antietam. It's the one thing restraining the D in that situation.

    I shared this idea with my dad when I was about 10 and first learning about penalties. I asked him why instead of automatic first they didn't just give the offense a fifth down. He was still thinking it over when he died 35 years later.
    Last edited by Kepler; 10-15-2019 at 02:51 PM.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I think this would turn 3rd and long into Antietam. It's the one thing restraining the D in that situation.
    I disagree with that. No defense can survive if they are constantly giving the offense free shots, and that's what defensive penalties are is a free roll for the offense. If it succeeds, great. If not, march off the 3 to 5 yards and give the offense another shot.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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