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Thread: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....


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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    And what about all the times that you call for their heads when they do get it right, but due to a lack of rules knowledge, mechanics knowledge, positioning, and general training, you are completely wrong? Seems like a 99%/1% scenario here. You want to jump on them for the 1% their wrong, but the just shrug off all the crap they will get, even though they are right.

    No job should allow someone to make threats on another person's life, even if it is in a joking manner. (not saying you personally made any threats. I've seen quite a few on FaceBook today however)
    I would chime in but RaceBoarder has largely covered it. Abuse of officials at the youth levels occurs largely because abuse of officials is normalized at the professional level, today being a glaring example of it.

    Of course Kepler keeps his “Old Man yells at cloud” routine going. Replay is a fine tool and a helpful tool but, like everything else in life, not perfect. Though that’s no reason to ban it outright.

    The NFL, and the other 3 in the Big 4, could do a lot by publicly discussing officiating concerns but that would require them to actually care about and trust their officiating department. Let’s just say there’s a real good reason why people like Mike Pereira and Gene Steratore work in media and not for the NFL anymore.

    Contrast all this with MLS and the Professional Referees Organization’s Inside Video Review videos they post every week.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    I would chime in but RaceBoarder has largely covered it. Abuse of officials at the youth levels occurs largely because abuse of officials is normalized at the professional level, today being a glaring example of it.

    Of course Kepler keeps his “Old Man yells at cloud” routine going. Replay is a fine tool and a helpful tool but, like everything else in life, not perfect. Though that’s no reason to ban it outright.

    The NFL, and the other 3 in the Big 4, could do a lot by publicly discussing officiating concerns but that would require them to actually care about and trust their officiating department. Let’s just say there’s a real good reason why people like Mike Pereira and Gene Steratore work in media and not for the NFL anymore.

    Contrast all this with MLS and the Professional Referees Organization’s https://proreferees.com/2019/10/11/watch-inside-video-review-mls-week-31/]Inside Video Review[/url] videos they post every week.
    Yeah, there is a reason the Refs go on strike more than the players...Players want their share of the pie and owners don't want to spend a larger chunk of their portion on the refs so these guys can make alot more money in media and not have to deal with actually making the mistakes we complain about it excruciating details.

    Referees should be paid better and all be full-time.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    I would chime in but RaceBoarder has largely covered it. Abuse of officials at the youth levels occurs largely because abuse of officials is normalized at the professional level, today being a glaring example of it.

    Of course Kepler keeps his “Old Man yells at cloud” routine going. Replay is a fine tool and a helpful tool but, like everything else in life, not perfect. Though that’s no reason to ban it outright.

    The NFL, and the other 3 in the Big 4, could do a lot by publicly discussing officiating concerns but that would require them to actually care about and trust their officiating department. Let’s just say there’s a real good reason why people like Mike Pereira and Gene Steratore work in media and not for the NFL anymore.

    Contrast all this with MLS and the Professional Referees Organization’s https://proreferees.com/2019/10/11/watch-inside-video-review-mls-week-31/]Inside Video Review[/url] videos they post every week.
    The NBA posts a Last Two Minutes report for every game that was within one score during those two minutes. It goes over each call as a CC, ICC, CNC, or INC. Outside of criticism that they're placing more emphasis on some parts of the game than others, that's about as transparent as you can be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    The NBA posts a Last Two Minutes report for every game that was within one score during those two minutes. It goes over each call as a CC, ICC, CNC, or INC. Outside of criticism that they're placing more emphasis on some parts of the game than others, that's about as transparent as you can be.
    TIL.

    Pretty cool.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Of course Kepler keeps his “Old Man yells at cloud” routine going. Replay is a fine tool and a helpful tool but, like everything else in life, not perfect. Though that’s no reason to ban it outright.
    I'm not sure what the f-ck is wrong with you is but part of my attitude is defense of officials. The larger part is sports is entertainment and result perfectionism degrades it as entertainment.

    The overgrowth of replay is a classic example of perverse incentives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I'm not sure what the f-ck is wrong with you is but part of my attitude is defense of officials. The larger part is sports is entertainment and result perfectionism degrades it as entertainment.

    The overgrowth of replay is a classic example of perverse incentives.
    Because you sound like a Trump supporter with your “things were simpler back in the day!” attitude.

    Most officials at the professional level of any sport are supportive of replay systems, more often than not they just want to get the call right.

    And even at the amateur levels you’ll find a referee pouring over game footage shot by someone’s phone because they want to improve for future games.

    It’s far easier to embrace and adapt with the technology than try to hide from it.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I'm not sure what the f-ck is wrong with you is but part of my attitude is defense of officials. The larger part is sports is entertainment and result perfectionism degrades it as entertainment.

    The overgrowth of replay is a classic example of perverse incentives.
    Replay is a Pandora's box situation. With the General Public, everything has to be perfect now because we can take a 15x zoomed in image and go frame by frame to see if that one blade of grass with white paint on it touched the ball carrier's shoe. You aren't going back to no replay. We are at a point now where video will grant us diminishing returns. There aren't egregious errors that are falling through the cracks now (Think Colorado's 5th Down or Don Deckinger's 1st base Safe). They can also provide angles that an official can't otherwise get on the field that can be advantageous (Camera on the goal line, but elevated on a play where the RB goes straight up the middle into the pile). The plays that are in question are the ones where it's quite literally like I described above where video needs to be analyzed frame by frame to determine the outcome. Those are the replays that drive me nuts, because again, official's can't win. 50% of people will be happy, and 50% will want to kill you. It comes down to the General Public having ZERO clue how things work and demanding absolute perfection on all calls that benefit their team.

    This coming season in NCAA Baseball I'm likely to have my 1st experience with in-game video review, and I welcome it. I want to be right. Like I said before, we have moments just like players do. Video gives us an ability to correct those errors. I won't take any offense if I look at the video and see that the runner was safe by a 1/4 step or that the 1st baseman pulled his foot by a few inches.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Because you sound like a Trump supporter with your “things were simpler back in the day!” attitude.

    Most officials at the professional level of any sport are supportive of replay systems, more often than not they just want to get the call right.

    And even at the amateur levels you’ll find a referee pouring over game footage shot by someone’s phone because they want to improve for future games.

    It’s far easier to embrace and adapt with the technology than try to hide from it.
    Except this is the NFL thread, and the officials very clearly do NOT support the replay system anymore. The refusal to correct some of these PI calls is nuts.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    Replay is a Pandora's box situation. With the General Public, everything has to be perfect now because we can take a 15x zoomed in image and go frame by frame to see if that one blade of grass with white paint on it touched the ball carrier's shoe. You aren't going back to no replay. We are at a point now where video will grant us diminishing returns. There aren't egregious errors that are falling through the cracks now (Think Colorado's 5th Down or Don Deckinger's 1st base Safe). They can also provide angles that an official can't otherwise get on the field that can be advantageous (Camera on the goal line, but elevated on a play where the RB goes straight up the middle into the pile). The plays that are in question are the ones where it's quite literally like I described above where video needs to be analyzed frame by frame to determine the outcome. Those are the replays that drive me nuts, because again, official's can't win. 50% of people will be happy, and 50% will want to kill you. It comes down to the General Public having ZERO clue how things work and demanding absolute perfection on all calls that benefit their team.

    This coming season in NCAA Baseball I'm likely to have my 1st experience with in-game video review, and I welcome it. I want to be right. Like I said before, we have moments just like players do. Video gives us an ability to correct those errors. I won't take any offense if I look at the video and see that the runner was safe by a 1/4 step or that the 1st baseman pulled his foot by a few inches.
    This.

    And of course, what plays are reviewable. Finally, sometimes officials just throw a flag, because they know they can rely on instant replay.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    This.

    And of course, what plays are reviewable. Finally, sometimes officials just throw a flag, because they know they can rely on instant replay.
    With replay, officials will now hedge their calls. They will call a pass a catch and let things play out knowing that if it did hit the ground, you can come back and just reset the clock and go from the previous spot. Officials change their mechanics based on replay being there.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    With replay, officials will now hedge their calls. They will call a pass a catch and let things play out knowing that if it did hit the ground, you can come back and just reset the clock and go from the previous spot. Officials change their mechanics based on replay being there.
    Exactly. And we can only hope that the grading system stays true, and advances refs that get it right the first time around.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    Exactly. And we can only hope that the grading system stays true, and advances refs that get it right the first time around.
    That is part of the grading system actually. They also allow for calls to be something on the 1st go, but then have replay overrule, and not negatively affect the officials overall grade. The entire system has evolved around replay since it's not going away ever at the top levels of the sports world.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    That is part of the grading system actually. They also allow for calls to be something on the 1st go, but then have replay overrule, and not negatively affect the officials overall grade. The entire system has evolved around replay since it's not going away ever at the top levels of the sports world.
    I agree it will never go away, and that is a good thing. It will force the refs to really hone their craft. They have to improve their skills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Of course Kepler keeps his “Old Man yells at cloud” routine going. Replay is a fine tool and a helpful tool but, like everything else in life, not perfect. Though that’s no reason to ban it outright.
    The reason to ban it outright is that it ruins the live product. The only sport I've seen get it right is tennis, ironically. Soccer's goal line tech is ok, but the offside and card replays are as bad as the NFLs.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Because you sound like a Trump supporter with your “things were simpler back in the day!” attitude.
    But that isn't my point. My point is we should pick and choose what advantages technology provides us. I am not a Luddite. I love analytics. I love streaming and high definition. I love that I can literally watch -- not just listen but watch -- every Cornell hockey game from my mother's, er, my basement.

    Replay began as a cool TV feature (on MNF IINM). Then it began to expose that calls were blown. This became so egregious that now we are 98% down the VAR path.

    I am standing athwart history yelling Stop! We can choose to do sports any way we like. Sports are an artificial human creation. I am recommending that we eliminate replay -- eliminate recapitulation -- and deliberately watch and enjoy in the moment. The way the game is now it is an examination of past events. This colors even the present -- we don't watch as closely because there's always replay. Every moment of joy has a tinge of "what if this is reversed?" This perfecting of officiating is destroying the sport.

    What we have now is music where when somebody plays a wrong note we stop, have a 2 minute review, and then replay that phrase. Let there be wrong notes! Having it be spontaneous is more important than getting every single call right.

    You may disagree with me but I don't deserve the flippant Abe Simpson reference. What I am arguing is substantial and deserves consideration.
    Last edited by Kepler; 10-16-2019 at 10:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    But that isn't my point. My point is we should pick and choose what advantages technology provides us. I am not a Luddite. I love analytics. I love streaming and high definition. I love that I can literally watch -- not just listen but watch -- every Cornell hockey game from my mother's, er, my basement.

    Replay began as a cool TV feature (on MNF IINM). Then it began to expose that calls were blown. This became so egregious that now we are 98% down the VAR path.

    I am standing athwart history yelling Stop! We can choose to do sports any way we like. Sports are an artificial human creation. I am recommending that we eliminate replay -- eliminate recapitulation -- and deliberately watch and enjoy in the moment. The way the game is now it is an examination of past events. This colors even the present -- we don't watch as closely because there's always replay. Every moment of joy has a tinge of "what if this is reversed?" This perfecting of officiating is destroying the sport.

    What we have now is music where when somebody plays a wrong note we stop, have a 2 minute review, and then replay that phrase. Let there be wrong notes! Having it be spontaneous is more important than getting every single call right.

    You may disagree with me but I don't deserve the flippant Abe Simpson reference. What I am arguing is substantial and deserves consideration.
    You get a flippant Abe Simpson reference because you deserve a flippant Abe Simpson reference. Wanting to ban replay outright is as ridiculous as wanting to ban the forward pass because the running game needs to be saved, it’s a ridiculous and fantastical idea. Replay is a natural evolution of the game and a useful tool to officials. Your attitude reeks of “I don’t like what sports is becoming because it’s new and different, why can’t we just go back to how it was?!?”

    Officiating advances just like any other aspect of a sport. Better whistles are developed to be heard over loud crowds, wireless headsets to better communicate, using microphones to communicate calls to the crowd and tv audience, adding officials on the field, changing the positions of officials on the field, and this is just the NFL. This isn’t stopping to correct a wrong note, it’s not allowing the musician to look at the sheet music.

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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post

    You may disagree with me but I don't deserve the flippant Abe Simpson reference. What I am arguing is substantial and deserves consideration.
    Yes, you do actually. To your second point, no it doesn't deserve consideration for anybody who doesn't have the free time in their day that you have to concoct these long winded posts that go nowhere.

    Now tell us again about that time you went to Shelbyville with an onion attached to your belt because that was the fashion at the time.
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    Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Yes, you do actually. To your second point, no it doesn't deserve consideration for anybody who doesn't have the free time in their day that you have to concoct these long winded posts that go nowhere.

    Now tell us again about that time you went to Shelbyville with an onion attached to your belt because that was the fashion at the time.
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    Last edited by Kepler; 10-16-2019 at 11:05 AM.
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