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  • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

    Getting back to the ref who was betting on his own games in hoops, he also said that he could predict with 75% accuracy who would win the games he was betting on that he wasn't officiating based on the biases and preferences of his fellow refs. For example, he could spot a pattern that certain refs either liked or disliked certain players/coaches and would call the game accordingly. Again, the officials are only human.
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    • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

      Originally posted by Rover View Post
      Getting back to the ref who was betting on his own games in hoops, he also said that he could predict with 75% accuracy who would win the games he was betting on that he wasn't officiating based on the biases and preferences of his fellow refs. For example, he could spot a pattern that certain refs either liked or disliked certain players/coaches and would call the game accordingly.
      While this is possible it also sounds a lot like Dump saying "everybody does it" whenever he gets caught.
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      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        I assumed they were just on the take from Milan.
        No, they both had very public profiles by that time. Collina had done the 2002 World Cup Final and Rosetti would go on to do the 2008 Euro Final. You don’t get those assignments if there’s even a whiff of being on the take.
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        • Originally posted by RaceBoarder View Post
          And the receiver who is all by himself and drops a pass that hits him in the numbers? A RB who has all sorts of room to the right, but cuts back to his left right into the line? Leon Lett touching that FG ball after it was blocked? Players do "stupid" s*it all the time.

          Yes, there are truly "bad" calls. But they happen at the same rate (arguably even less often) than you see "bonehead" plays. This is the thing that people need to realize. It's not just 22 guys on that field that are performing at the absolute limitations of the human body. It's 29. As a sports culture, we need to start giving those 7 other guys the credit they deserve...
          You arent wrong...but that is the way it goes.
          They are expected to get it right...epecially when they also have the ability to use replay (which they screwed up on with a Lions catch)
          And it's not like the players get no scrutiny when they screw up.
          The big problem for me is no one ever knows what happens when these guys screw up that bad. Maybe that would lessen some of the howling if people actually knew there were consequences for these errors.
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          • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

            Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
            You arent wrong...but that is the way it goes.
            They are expected to get it right...epecially when they also have the ability to use replay (which they screwed up on with a Lions catch)
            And it's not like the players get no scrutiny when they screw up.
            The big problem for me is no one ever knows what happens when these guys screw up that bad. Maybe that would lessen some of the howling if people actually knew there were consequences for these errors.
            its a fine line because they can't undermine referees too much and create this environment where everyone thinks they're always wrong.
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            • Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
              its a fine line because they can't undermine referees too much and create this environment where everyone thinks they're always wrong.
              Most fans seem to think they are already wrong all the time anyway.
              Protecting them the way these leagues do makes the impression these guys can't handle criticism (even internally when you have players and coaches being fined) and that is a worse look IMO.
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              • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

                Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                You arent wrong...but that is the way it goes.
                They are expected to get it right...epecially when they also have the ability to use replay (which they screwed up on with a Lions catch)
                And it's not like the players get no scrutiny when they screw up.
                The big problem for me is no one ever knows what happens when these guys screw up that bad. Maybe that would lessen some of the howling if people actually knew there were consequences for these errors.
                Again, apply the same logic you would to a player. If a WR drops a pass once, it's no big deal. If it repeatedly happens, he gets cut. Same thing happens for the refs. You rarely hear how players are punished for stupid plays...

                Just like teams do, this crew will have an eye opening film session this week. They will be blasted by the NFL Supervisors. If that blasting has a negative effect on future performance, it will go a long way in how the remainder of their NFL careers pan out. Trust me, every aspect of these guys lives are graded when they are on the field.
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                • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

                  Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                  No, they both had very public profiles by that time. Collina had done the 2002 World Cup Final and Rosetti would go on to do the 2008 Euro Final. You don’t get those assignments if there’s even a whiff of being on the take.
                  j/k
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                  • Originally posted by RaceBoarder View Post
                    Again, apply the same logic you would to a player. If a WR drops a pass once, it's no big deal. If it repeatedly happens, he gets cut. Same thing happens for the refs. You rarely hear how players are punished for stupid plays...

                    Just like teams do, this crew will have an eye opening film session this week. They will be blasted by the NFL Supervisors. If that blasting has a negative effect on future performance, it will go a long way in how the remainder of their NFL careers pan out. Trust me, every aspect of these guys lives are graded when they are on the field.
                    Players also have to face the media when they screw up.
                    No ref ever does and most of the time the leagues cover for them.
                    Refs are held to a different standard. Again...it may not be right but that's how it is. I do not and will not feel sorry for them.
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                    • Originally posted by RaceBoarder View Post
                      Do you seriously think that officials actively decide make more calls for Team A instead of Team B? Not just football, but any sport.
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                      • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

                        Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                        Players also have to face the media when they screw up.
                        No ref ever does and most of the time the leagues cover for them.
                        Refs are held to a different standard. Again...it may not be right but that's how it is. I do not and will not feel sorry for them.
                        What do you want from an official addressing the media? "I missed the call."

                        How would you feel about this quote: "I missed the call on ____ play. But in reality, **your team** ran 94 offensive plays and 104 on defense. If they scored one more TD on any of those, my mistake is a moot one." The official can pick any number of non-conversions during a game and use that to cancel out their ONE mistake. Cause that is what you'll get if you start having officials address the media.

                        Reality is that in the major sports, officials legitimately have their life threatened over mistakes. If they address the media and make a single misstep in their speaking, that is throwing a tanker of fuel on an already out of control blaze. There is no out as an official. Half of the world will think your incompetent, no matter the call. That is another factor in this. Again, there is no way that an official can talk their way out of a mistake without having their life threatened. That is how sad/pathetic our current sports culture has become.
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                        • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          While this is possible it also sounds a lot like Dump saying "everybody does it" whenever he gets caught.
                          I read a pretty good book on the NBA scandal that Rover is referring to, and I also recall reference made about an ability to predict outcomes based in part on known biases of the officials working the game.

                          That "science" is very real, and isn't just known to Tim Donaghy, the NBA ref who fixed the games. It is well known by the Las Vegas sports books and by the sharp money betting sports, as well as many others, I'm sure.

                          HBO Real Sports did a segment a few years ago that referenced a study done of MLB home plate umpires balls and strike calls. First, the number of erroneous calls was pretty significant, like 20 or 30%. But when examined in terms of who they favored (home or visiting team), especially in the playoffs, the numbers were crazy. An ump might be wrong 20% of the time, but 80% of those instances would favor the home team.
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                          • Re: NFL 2019-20: We'll Just Talk About Our Fantasy Teams Again....

                            Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                            You arent wrong...but that is the way it goes.
                            They are expected to get it right...epecially when they also have the ability to use replay (which they screwed up on with a Lions catch)
                            And it's not like the players get no scrutiny when they screw up.
                            The big problem for me is no one ever knows what happens when these guys screw up that bad. Maybe that would lessen some of the howling if people actually knew there were consequences for these errors.
                            Performance by officials are reviewed each and every week by the league.

                            Most fans don't pay enough attention to know which set of officials, or which individual officials are assigned to the various games each week. The NFL will put their top performing officials into the highest profile games each week, and then promote them by giving their best officials games during the playoffs. The top two or three squads get a crack at the Super Bowl, depending upon a few factors.

                            The underperforming groups tend to be assigned to the Jets, Lions, or Redskins games, and the worst performing individuals will find themselves without steady weekly assignments. Then at the end of the season, if the worst performers are below a certain threshold, they will be cut loose from the league.
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                            • Originally posted by RaceBoarder View Post
                              What do you want from an official addressing the media? "I missed the call."

                              How would you feel about this quote: "I missed the call on ____ play. But in reality, **your team** ran 94 offensive plays and 104 on defense. If they scored one more TD on any of those, my mistake is a moot one." The official can pick any number of non-conversions during a game and use that to cancel out their ONE mistake. Cause that is what you'll get if you start having officials address the media.

                              Reality is that in the major sports, officials legitimately have their life threatened over mistakes. If they address the media and make a single misstep in their speaking, that is throwing a tanker of fuel on an already out of control blaze. There is no out as an official. Half of the world will think your incompetent, no matter the call. That is another factor in this. Again, there is no way that an official can talk their way out of a mistake without having their life threatened. That is how sad/pathetic our current sports culture has become.
                              Again...you aren't wrong. But you also are the one who keeps wanting to compare players to refs.
                              The players are held accountable by the media each week. You want them compared...then the same standards should apply.
                              Players also get death threats. Blair Walsh did for missing a kick in a playoff game and ive heard of it happening to college kids too.
                              And im sorry but this boo hoo woe is the refs thing doesn't fly with me. I'm not crushing a pee wee official here.. This is the NFL...the highest level of your profession...get it right. If not...then start adding replay to penalties.
                              Again...the optics is what I'm talking about here
                              ..perception is reality. And the perception this morning is the league has massive egg on its face amd deservedly so.
                              Last edited by First Time, Long Time; 10-15-2019, 12:22 PM.
                              "If you leave ignorance and stupidity alone, ignorance and stupidity will think it's ok."
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                              Grandma ~ Jan 2004
                              Dad ~ Nov. 4, 1958-April 21, 2008
                              Grandpa S. ~ June 21, 1932-November 11, 2013

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                              • Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                                Performance by officials are reviewed each and every week by the league.

                                Most fans don't pay enough attention to know which set of officials, or which individual officials are assigned to the various games each week. The NFL will put their top performing officials into the highest profile games each week, and then promote them by giving their best officials games during the playoffs. The top two or three squads get a crack at the Super Bowl, depending upon a few factors.

                                The underperforming groups tend to be assigned to the Jets, Lions, or Redskins games, and the worst performing individuals will find themselves without steady weekly assignments. Then at the end of the season, if the worst performers are below a certain threshold, they will be cut loose from the league.
                                i am well aware of all of this.
                                Again...im talking about optics.
                                "If you leave ignorance and stupidity alone, ignorance and stupidity will think it's ok."
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                                R.I.P.
                                Grandpa G. ~ Feb 11, 1918-Oct. 6, 1999
                                Grandma ~ Jan 2004
                                Dad ~ Nov. 4, 1958-April 21, 2008
                                Grandpa S. ~ June 21, 1932-November 11, 2013

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