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Thread: "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

  1. #1
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    "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

    Some politicians (maybe most) are so lost among the trees that they will never find their way out let alone their having any perception of the fact that it is a forest of trees that they are hopelessly lost in.

    Might we be reading about some surprises on the ice in the next few years...and in the dressing room?

    This world is spinning completely out of control. On second thought maybe that present tense should be the past tense...because it's been going on so long that it's probably already done spun.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...out-of-sports/

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    Re: "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

    What about biological women who identify themselves as male? Are they going to be forced or able to play on the men's team?

    Seems to me for the area of sports, you should play on the gender team you were biologically born as. I can just see it now, in a few years the Russian women's hockey team will be not what is used to be, those commies love to cheat.
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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    Re: "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

    Putin hates the homo agenda. I don't think any boys will be on girls teams under his watch.

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    Re: "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goodwrench View Post
    Putin hates the homo agenda. I don't think any boys will be on girls teams under his watch.
    More than anything Putin would want the gold medal, so he'd just turn a blind eye.
    Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
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    Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

  5. #5
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    Re: "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

    This is one of those things where we really ought to find out whether there is a real problem before we start panicking. For several reasons, I suspect that this is going to turn out to be a whole lot less disruptive than some people are assuming. Most states already allow transwomen to compete as girls in high school sports, and there hasn't been any sort elimination of cis-female athletes.

    This is a subject I researched for my novel, and have followed since, because the protagonist is intersex. While that's not the same thing as being transgender, there are a lot of similarities in how they are treated and some overlap in what the possible competitive effects are.

    The first reason I'm skeptical that this is going to be a big deal for anyone but the athletes directly affected is that, contrary to the way it gets framed, a boy cannot simply declare, "I'm really a girl," and start competing in girls' sports. There has to be a medical diagnosis affirming that they are transgender, and this includes actually living as female. In most of the states that allow transwomen to compete as girls, they must also be on hormone therapy. While Connecticut is not one of those states, the two track athletes that have become the focus of so much are undergoing hormone therapy.

    So, we aren't going to see a huge rush of boys deciding that there's an athletic opportunity awaiting them if they just declare themselves to be transgender. The commitment level required is simply too high for someone who is not authentically transgender to opt to go down this path.

    The second reason I'm skeptical is because the research as to whether transwomen have an athletic advantage over ciswomen is surprisingly inconclusive. Or perhaps not so surprisingly, given how little it's been studied. To start, you should toss out all of the anecdotal stories of transwomen athletes telling you how much or how little an advantage they have. Those stories are all over the map as to what the effects are, and they have all sorts of complicating factors, and anecdotes almost always do.

    Keep in mind that the relevant question is not whether boys have an athletic advantage over girls. Given the regulations in place in most locales, the question is whether transwomen who are undergoing female hormone therapy have an athletic advantage over girls. There are reasons to think that such therapy reduces or eliminates such an advantage, though, again, it hasn't been sufficiently tested to have a definitive answer. We just don't know.

    It's also worth understanding the mechanics of how, if there is an advantage to having been born male that carries over after transitioning, such an advantage manifests. There's a pretty good chance that testosterone levels don't play that much of a role. The research suggests that elevated natural testosterone levels don't play that much of a role in athletic performance among women. Testosterone taken through steroid use affects the body differently than natural testosterone does, and clearly provides an advantage, but that doesn't say much about natural hormone levels. This is more relevant to intersex women who have XY chromosomes, such as those with androgen insensitivity syndrome, than it is to transgender athletes, but is part of the reason why one should be open minded as to whether hormone therapy reduces the advantage of the testosterone that a transwoman might still be producing.

    It's more likely that being born with XY chromosomes means that a person is, on average, going to be taller than someone with XX chromosomes, and that provides an athletic advantage. There are also some elements of body structure that may provide an advantage even after transition. One consequence of this is that the testosterone suppression therapy that the NCAA requires, and that the IAAF is trying to impose in international track and field (see the Caster Semenaya case), is possibly irrelevant to the question as well as being potentially harmful to the individual.

    On a philosophical level, it also opens up the question of whether these are the sort of advantages that other athletes should be protected from. If the argument is about testosterone levels, then it becomes a situation where literally no ciswoman who is not intersex has a level as high as a cismale, and one can claim that this is something beyond just having to compete with someone exceptional. If the advantage stems from a statistical propensity to be taller, the argument is now on terrain in which there are plenty of cisfemale athletes who are as tall, and who have as unusual a body type for a woman, as the transfemale athletes that they would have to compete against. Is having to compete against trans athletes with that advantage any different than having to compete against all of the cis athletes who also have it?

    In short, lets figure out whether there's really a problem here.

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    Re: "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

    Still Eeyore.....what a fantastic insight.....what is your opinion of the bill that was passed? Was it really needed or just a political ploy to pander to constituents?

    I think we're all waiting for a certain someone to hop on and tell us what he thinks of this.......
    Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

  7. #7
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    Re: "House Votes Women Out of Sport"

    I am tentatively in favor, with the option of revisiting the question if the results are strongly in the other direction. Which doesn't mean that I would necessarily be in favor of repeal in that case, just that it involves more complicated questions. I support allowing transgender individuals to live as who they are mentally, emotionally, and spiritually in all ways, unless there is a very compelling reason not to, of which I think there are very few, and possibly none outside of their private relationship with their doctors.

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    Still Eeyore.....Respect!

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