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Thread: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    "the Bobblehead" gets excoriated.

    Vice President Mike Pence is a Christian. So were all those immoral people who, for centuries, used their religion to crucify others.

    No, this is not a castigation of Christianity, or those who honestly attempt to live up to its foundational ideal of loving their neighbor as they love themselves. This is about that virulent strain perverted by people like Pence, who sharpen dogma into a weapon and love only those who look like them and share the same venomous beliefs as they do.

    This was on hideous display as Pence and a group of fellow Republicans visited an overcrowded migrant detention center in McAllen, Texas. With icy condescension, Pence didn’t bother making eye contact with men crammed so tightly into a fenced cage that there was no room for all of them to lie on the concrete floor that now serves as their bed. This was after weeks of Democratic legislators, human rights advocates, and even the Trump administration’s own Department of Homeland Security’s Office of the Inspector General decrying the deteriorating conditions for thousands suffering prolonged detention.

    Pence, who describes himself as a “Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order” showed no mercy for those locked flesh against flesh in cells meant to hold half as many people. The men chanted “no shower, no shower,” implying they had not been allowed to bathe for weeks; a reported stench seemed to prove their point. When one man said, “We are not terrorists. We are humans,” Pence ignored him. Clearly, Pence’s Christian compassion isn’t available to brown people from foreign countries locked in cages.

    More than two years into this presidency, it’s absurd to ask why white evangelicals have remained this administration’s most loyal constituency. Those in doubt need only look at the vice president, whose selective faith is the cornerstone of his political life.

    In 2016, Trump chose Pence to shore up his support among religious conservatives, especially after he showed his ignorance of the Bible when he referred to one of its books, Second Corinthians, as “Two Corinthians.” Pence’s tinny morality — he even refuses to eat alone with any woman other than his wife — looked like a shortcut to the evangelical support Trump’s campaign sorely needed.

    In his new book, “American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump,” Tim Alberta, Politico’s chief political correspondent, says Pence’s talent for presidential “bootlicking” earned him the moniker “the Bobblehead” from fellow Republicans — because of his tendency to nod along with everything Trump says.

    Trump is an evil, bombastic dolt. Pence is more diabolical. He’s a mediocre man who found his hustle — and power — in Scripture and sanctimony. He uses God as his wingman to promote his boss’s odious policies that harm and punish vulnerable populations, whether it’s women demanding agency over their own bodies, children separated from parents, or kids who’ve died in US custody on the Trump administration’s watch.

    For Pence and his ilk, this is the will of God at work. Of course, that was also the belief of those who legislated the enslavement of black people; created Jim Crow laws to violently and legally subjugate African-Americans; justified apartheid in South Africa; fostered anti-Semitism; and promoted “manifest destiny” to the detriment and devastation of indigenous peoples that still resonates today.

    Religious fervor has always been a convenient mask for immorality. It’s not a coincidence that the most potent symbol of the Ku Klux Klan is a burning cross.

    At least as I learned it in Sunday school, Pence’s behavior would be seen anathema to Christianity, unless one considers how often this religion (like most of the world’s religions) is used by con men to destroy lives, upend cultures, and instill a myopic vision created by earthbound egos and agendas.

    At the Texas detention center, Pence asked a group of children, “Are they taking good care of you here?” One child said, “Sí,” as if any answer other than “yes” was an option. Pence later declared these children are receiving “excellent care,” and denounced any other interpretation as “dishonest.”

    Pence is every white evangelical Trump supporter. He’s full of lies and false piety designed to dupe allies and, in particular, break the backs of those he despises. Forget God. Trump is his lord and savior. And if a corrupt, racist, lying, accused sexual predator gets Pence closer to the theocracy he craves, he would ditch our democracy, or what’s left of it, in a fetal heartbeat.
    A bad cause requires many words.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    There’s a lot of pretzel twisting there. Got into journalism because he felt views weren’t being portrayed correctly and wanted to change it, but we can’t portray these views because we didn’t previously portray them that way and therefore it would mean the line has changed.
    The line has changed.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    First of all seems a bit disingenuous to rip NPR they printed an opinion piece by one worker there...

    Second, what he said isnt necessarily wrong. There is a difference between opinion and journalism and in his mind it is for the opinion sections to call the tweets racist and it is the journalism sections jobs to just report what was said without labels. I know that doesnt fly in the clickbait culture but that is kind of how it is supposed to be and seeing as the guy has been in the game longer than we have been alive it isnt exactly shocking he has a more old school mentality towards how journalism should be practiced.

    He didnt say the President wasnt racist he said leave the name calling to the parts of the news that is based on opinions. Not exactly controversial...even if I dont agree with it.
    Gotta disagree here. Its chickenshi t journalism that we've come to expect out of the NY Times for example. Or Chuck Todd saying it wasn't his job to report the truth. Really, if reporters aren't going to tell us we're being p issed on, and instead put one person on who says we are and another who says its merely raining out, who exactly benefits from that? Answer: the person lying through their teeth. Pathetic but what I'm come to expect from NPR. Their human interest stories are great, but when they try to cover a political controversy their first inclination is to turtle up and play the bothsiderism angle.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    First of all seems a bit disingenuous to rip NPR they printed an opinion piece by one worker there...

    Second, what he said isnt necessarily wrong. There is a difference between opinion and journalism and in his mind it is for the opinion sections to call the tweets racist and it is the journalism sections jobs to just report what was said without labels. I know that doesnt fly in the clickbait culture but that is kind of how it is supposed to be and seeing as the guy has been in the game longer than we have been alive it isnt exactly shocking he has a more old school mentality towards how journalism should be practiced.

    He didnt say the President wasnt racist he said leave the name calling to the parts of the news that is based on opinions. Not exactly controversial...even if I dont agree with it.
    Correct. Anyone with half a brain would read his tweets and recognize the blatant racism. I don't need a "journalist" to tell me that. I also agree that going out of their way to blast it as racist isn't going to resonate with the people that are triggered to defend Trump at all costs. Report it with a neutral view and I think some people you might not otherwise think so would actually say to themselves, "That's pretty fu**ed up".

    The question is how many journalists vs. straight up commentators are actually doing this or is this a mountain and molehill observation?

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Pathetic but what I'm come to expect from NPR. Their human interest stories are great, but when they try to cover a political controversy their first inclination is to turtle up and play the bothsiderism angle.
    NPR is one of the worst when it comes to bothsiderism. They perpetuate it with the best of them. I don't know that their morning or afternoon drive time talking head shows have a competent anchor between them anymore. Sad because a decade ago it was not like that. They've fallen into a pit of bothsiderism at precisely the worst time for responsible journalists to to do it. Sometimes I think I hate the mainstream media as much as trump or other RWNJs.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Gotta disagree here. Its chickenshi t journalism that we've come to expect out of the NY Times for example. Or Chuck Todd saying it wasn't his job to report the truth. Really, if reporters aren't going to tell us we're being p issed on, and instead put one person on who says we are and another who says its merely raining out, who exactly benefits from that? Answer: the person lying through their teeth. Pathetic but what I'm come to expect from NPR. Their human interest stories are great, but when they try to cover a political controversy their first inclination is to turtle up and play the bothsiderism angle.
    If as a journalist you are going to write about a tweet someone wrote, and you report "X published a racist tweet" or "X published a sexist tweet", isn't the adjective necessarily opinion?
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    Correct. Anyone with half a brain would read his tweets and recognize the blatant racism. I don't need a "journalist" to tell me that. I also agree that going out of their way to blast it as racist isn't going to resonate with the people that are triggered to defend Trump at all costs. Report it with a neutral view and I think some people you might not otherwise think so would actually say to themselves, "That's pretty fu**ed up".
    You're high if you think a reasonable number of trump supporters would ever say his tweets are anything but spot on and the gospel. 5 republican Representatives voted to condemn one of the worst, most vile tweets of his presidential tenure. 5 out of 198. One is black, one I believe is retiring, one is primed to do anything he can to tweak trump's nose, and one had to cloud his vote with an extreme "what about the other side?" comment about the democrats. That leaves one who seemed to just say "wrong is wrong and the president is wrong." 1.

    trump's next rally could include repeated shouts of the "N" word and the cheering would be thunderous. In fact I wish he'd just start throwing the word around. I think it's high time we see just what we're made of here in my country. I want to know which white people have the courage to say no more. I want to know if any of them have the courage to say "I was wrong about trump and there ARE still things we need to fix when it comes to racism." I'm not holding my breath.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Gotta disagree here. Its chickenshi t journalism that we've come to expect out of the NY Times for example. Or Chuck Todd saying it wasn't his job to report the truth. Really, if reporters aren't going to tell us we're being p issed on, and instead put one person on who says we are and another who says its merely raining out, who exactly benefits from that? Answer: the person lying through their teeth. Pathetic but what I'm come to expect from NPR. Their human interest stories are great, but when they try to cover a political controversy their first inclination is to turtle up and play the bothsiderism angle.
    I said I disagree with, but I am not from the halcyon days of the News. This guy is older and was brought up in different style of journalism so his opinion is going to differ from mine. But I bet it is closer to what is taught at journalism school.

    But my real point was that trix seemed to be criticizing NPR for an opinion piece by one of their workers. it isnt like the Editor in Chief said this is the way they were going to do it, the guy who is in charge of diversity or whatever wrote an personal opinion. That is no different than when The Times or WaPo print a Conservative opinion piece. Just because they print the piece doesnt mean that is in line with their standards and practices.

    I think in normal times it is a better policy to do what this guy says. The problem is we dont live in normal times and since the media sold out to Big Business a long time ago they are compromised anyways so might as well just speak the truth and go with it.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Someone want to let NPR know?


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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    If as a journalist you are going to write about a tweet someone wrote, and you report "X published a racist tweet" or "X published a sexist tweet", isn't the adjective necessarily opinion?
    yeah, it's not like we have any laws or anything that define racism and discrimination based on it.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    This may shock you, but the story of Trump winning an award for helping inner-city black youths is a lie: https://www.apnews.com/afs:Content:2601590439

    Also, I like how they call it a "mixture" when it's plainly false.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    If as a journalist you are going to write about a tweet someone wrote, and you report "X published a racist tweet" or "X published a sexist tweet", isn't the adjective necessarily opinion?
    I think it is. Doesn't mean it's not valuable news, but it's opinion.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    Correct. Anyone with half a brain would read his tweets and recognize the blatant racism. I don't need a "journalist" to tell me that. I also agree that going out of their way to blast it as racist isn't going to resonate with the people that are triggered to defend Trump at all costs. Report it with a neutral view and I think some people you might not otherwise think so would actually say to themselves, "That's pretty fu**ed up".

    The question is how many journalists vs. straight up commentators are actually doing this or is this a mountain and molehill observation?
    That is a good question. I think the problem is the line has been blurred so badly between the two it is hard to tell anymore. Even the respected News Magazine shows are crap in this regard these days so I am not sure what counts as what. I doubt if on the NBC Nightly News back in the day though Tom Brokaw would have said it was racist though which is what the NPR guy seems to be talking about.

    Again I disagree with the overall sentiment in part because we dont live in the Halycon Days and people have no quarrel with taking advantage of the media and their attempts at impartiality. Trump used a wave of that to get nomination (while deriding the very News that was giving him a free leg up) and until stuff like that can be prevented (which is probably not possible in the current model of News for Profit) then I am not sure there is a need to divide anymore since News Organizations themselves dont seem to hide their biases anymore.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    yeah, it's not like we have any laws or anything that define racism and discrimination based on it.
    I think you can make (in my opinion) a racist statement or tweet and not have it violate any laws.

    I guess my point is this. Pretty much every tweet the guy has ever published could realistically be described as a "racist tweet" or "idiotic tweet" or "nonsensical tweet" or "sexist tweet", etc... But is it the job of a journalist reporting on the story to make that characterization, or do we leave it to opinion pieces, or responses by others whose response can then be reported on by the journalist?
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    If it was really just opinion that the president is racist, it probably doesn't belong in actual news. However, the president is racist, and THAT should be ********* news.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Wasn't today supposed to be the day that Mueller was supposed to testify? Did I miss an announcement?

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by jerphisch View Post
    If it was really just opinion that the president is racist, it probably doesn't belong in actual news. However, the president is racist, and THAT should be ********* news.
    Yes. That's my answer to Hovey, and his reasoned, centrist, both-sidesism too.

    I'm sure he has no problem with the news characterizing Democrat positions as radical left or socialism.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet View Post
    Wasn't today supposed to be the day that Mueller was supposed to testify? Did I miss an announcement?
    Postponed for a week.
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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
    You're high if you think a reasonable number of trump supporters would ever say his tweets are anything but spot on and the gospel.
    I'm not and it was a reasonable observation so gfy. You can live in absolutes if you want but the world is not that black and white.

    Also what's the benefit of the vast majority of those in the media - including those that should be neutral observers - screaming, "THAT'S RACSIT!!"? Even if what you say is true - that none of his followers would ever be flummoxed by such a grossly worded tweet, while clearly everyone that despises him immediately picked up on the blatant racism - is anything gained by the reaction? Because really all that comes of it is the right-wing sh*t-bubble focuses only on their perception there was an overreaction, while spending no time on reflecting that it was a pretty stupid tweet to make. We have in fact seen conservative commentators call him out before - it's rare but it does happen. Don't add fuel to the fire.

    And again gfy if you come back at me with, "none of them are reasonable and will ever criticize him" because I've seen it firsthand.

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    Re: POTUS 45:55: Wow, @CNN RATINGS HAVE CRASHED. LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    I think you can make (in my opinion) a racist statement or tweet and not have it violate any laws.

    I guess my point is this. Pretty much every tweet the guy has ever published could realistically be described as a "racist tweet" or "idiotic tweet" or "nonsensical tweet" or "sexist tweet", etc... But is it the job of a journalist reporting on the story to make that characterization, or do we leave it to opinion pieces, or responses by others whose response can then be reported on by the journalist?
    I think trump is a racist and that his body of work proves it. But I also agree with you. I can report what he said and also report the many incidents in the past which confirm his racism without using my opinion to label him. It's like we tell mock trial kids I help coach, don't just say "he was very angry." Describe the many observable facts that will compel the judge or jury to conclude on their own that he was very angry.

    Then again, in an era of Fox ("fair and impartial") News, Limbaugh and the many other influential spin artists the right has used to manipulate the R base, together with the pressure to make headlines 24/7 with an audience with zero attention span, it's easy to see why journalists are lacking that kind of discipline.

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