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World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

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  • #16
    Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

    Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    I was speaking more along the lines of 7 gets to keep playing against 4, while 5 and 6 are sitting at home. There is the argument that 5 and 6 already had their shot, which I get, but it’s definitely an oddity in the system that a team gets to jump two others for a shot at the WC.
    I called out 5-12 in the rankings saying 5 and 6 will be very happy to make it but the line between who is 5 and who is 12 is not that big...so not letting all of them have a shot at the hex is difficult. It is quite possible that the 6 best teams in CONCACAF are not the ones that make the Hex...
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
      Jim,
      On the USWNT equal pay discussion what was actually offered as far as switching to a more men's style structure with USSF chipping in salary money to NWSL?
      Only thing I’ve seen is from the USSF filing that they offered a structure almost exactly to the men but the players rejected it. No idea what was to happen regarding the NWSL.
      U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
      Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
      I spell Failure with UAF

      Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
      But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
      Originally posted by Doyle Woody
      Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

        Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
        That is true. For a long timer like me this is all deja vu, all this s- going on now happened between 98-2000. The Men had a terrible WC cycle (finishing dead last in France), the Women won and arrogantly wondered why the Men were riding their coattails, the media wondered why the USSF spent money on the Men at all.

        Then 2000 happened, the Men hit a vain of youth talent and finished a surprising 4th in Syndey while the Women got knocked off and settled for bronze. MLS managed to survive while WUSA folded. The Men made a run to the Quarterfinals in 2002, being a missed handball from the Semifinals (F- Torsten Frings! ) while the Women crashed in 2003 and began a spiral down. The karmic cycle was interesting to watch.

        Though I’m still waiting for the karmic payback from the tragedy that is the 2010 cycle.
        Is this why you're so p-ssed at the women?

        I don't get that part. Here they are, THE absolutely God's gift to the sport in the US. They don't just win, they win with zest and style and a (sharpened) thumb in the eye of the fat old fools that watch ESPN to hear "hurr hurr" jokes about the beautiful game, and yet... you seem constantly teed off at them. I just don't get this. I know you love the MLS and yeah me not so much but the road to the Palace of Wisdom is paved with excess (William Blake) and the women are getting the best possible energy for the sport right now. Milk this sh-t til it bleeds.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          Is this why you're so p-ssed at the women?

          I don't get that part. Here they are, THE absolutely God's gift to the sport in the US. They don't just win, they win with zest and style and a (sharpened) thumb in the eye of the fat old fools that watch ESPN to hear "hurr hurr" jokes about the beautiful game, and yet... you seem constantly teed off at them. I just don't get this. I know you love the MLS and yeah me not so much but the road to the Palace of Wisdom is paved with excess (William Blake) and the women are getting the best possible energy for the sport right now. Milk this sh-t til it bleeds.
          I don’t hate the women, I have a dislike for the program. It’s a selfish, self-serving sorority that seeks not to grow the game in this country but to only grow the money in their pockets. Best example of this? Their CBA essentially guarantees them roster spots for every game, it makes it so only a couple of “non-contract” players can only be called in and if a player has a certain number of call ups they have to be offered a contract, but only a certain number of players can be on contract.

          If you want know the players true attitude towards the game in this country , ask them if they’ll be showing to their NWSL teams for their games this weekend? I’d bet my savings on “no”, and a good chunk on “no” for the weekend after as well. Maybe ask them if they’re gonna cut a chunk of their bonus to their NWSL teammates making $16k a year? They won’t, because they’re selfish and they really don’t care about the game in this country.

          As for the “energy”? It’s not something to capitalize on, it’ll be gone in a month.
          U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
          Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
          I spell Failure with UAF

          Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
          But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
          Originally posted by Doyle Woody
          Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

            Well, as usual, someone on BigSoccer can explain it for better than I can (I have real trouble putting thoughts from my brain into a post, especially when I'm using my phone):
            Those that follow women's soccer, but aren't fans of the WNT generally have one or more of the following reasons:

            1) The lawsuit(s) / legal actions about pay. A very brief synopsis of the timeline and basic stances of those involved:
            -Way back in 2004 in the aftermath of the collapse of the WUSA, the WNTPA and the USSF negotiated a new CBA (it was expired and needed to be renewed anyway) the changed the pay structure of national team players to having a decent portion of guaranteed income with a lower portion of income from per diems, bonuses and per game appearance fees. This also added official contracted roster spots to the team that players need to be formally released from with the paying of a severance package.
            -In 2012 this CBA was extended by a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the WNTPA and the USSF
            -In late 2015 / early 2016 the WNTPA took the stance the 2012 MOU was not intended as an extension of the CBA and that therefore that there was not CBA in place. There were implications that the players might strike in the lead up to the Olympics that year unless their pay was increased to match that of the MNT. The 2004 CBA, extended in 2012 by the MOU had a clause preventing strikes or lockouts for the duration of the CBA, hence the need to delegitimize the 2012 MOU if the players wanted to strike.
            -Now an item open to differing opinions: At this time several players made public statements about the differences in the MNT and WNT pay structures that some fans found misleading. These included comparing MNT and WNT revenues in 2015 (a peak year for WNT revenues vs a low post WC year for MNT revenues) to show that the WNT receives a lower portion of revenue than the MNT, ignoring the 2016 Copa America in MNT revenue projections but assuming an Olympic gold medal with CBA obligated victory tour in projected 2016 WNT revenue, overestimating number of games played by the MNT to increase possible MNT player income, and not addressing or acknowledging the structural differences in how MNT and WNT players are paid (MNT players are paid entirely on a per game/camp basis in per diems, appearance fees and bonuses, WNT players have lower per game/camp income but earn an annual salary if they are contracted to the team. This includes full paid injury leave, half time maternity leave and a severance package if their contract with the national team is cut. MNT players do not get these benefits)
            -Back to statements of fact: The USSF sued to get the 2012 MOU recognized as valid by a court to prevent a possible strike before the Olympics. This lawsuit was ruled in the USSF's favor
            -In late 2016 the WNTPA and the USSF negotiated a new CBA (the old one was set to expire, so this needed to be done anyway)
            -In approximately 2017 (I can't remember the exact starting point for this) the WNTPA initiated an investigation by the EEOC (Equal employment opportunity commission, a US government agency tasked with investigating incidents of employment discrimination) into the USSF's compensation of the WNT
            -In February/March of this year the EEOC returned it's decision. It did not find the USSF's compensation policies discriminatory and did not initiate any action, but did allow the WNTPA to begin a lawsuit (normally not allowed when under the effects of a CBA). This was somewhat of a "punt" ruling as it did not definitively clear the USSF or back the WNTPA allegations.
            -In march of this year the WNTPA initiated a lawsuit against the USSF claiming gender based pay discrimination. This suit is still ongoing.

            2) Due to the way the CBA is structured (see above), the WNT has a minimum number of players under contract receiving a guaranteed annual salary, regardless of number of games played. Additional players not under contract to the WNT (and therefore paid on a per game/camp basis) can be called in but only for a small amount of time before they must be upgraded to a contract with the WNT and a guaranteed annual salary. Due to the fact that the USSF is already paying a roster of 20-24 players whether they play or not this is an active financial disincentive to try out newer younger players. Added in that removing a player from contract (to replace them we a younger abler player) necessitates the paying of a severance package and older players can stay on the team getting playing time well past the time the team should have moved on. All of this means that player turnover is much lower than in the MNT and there are always a couple past their prime players every tournament included on the roster in favor of younger plays not yet under contract.

            3) In conjunction with items 1 and 2 above, some fans perceive an aura of entitlement from some of the players. Other behaviors that are perceived as supporting this assessment include: Players reportedly petitioning for a getting a regulation in the NWSL that no player not on the WNT may receive a higher NWSL salary than a WNT player receives from the NWSL (ie if the minimum NWSL salary for a WNT player is $36,000 then the maximum NWSL salary for everyone else is $35,999), WNT players treating the NWSL as an afterthought/not their real job and skimping on league duties (see Carlie Lloyd taking a month to return to the Houston Dash after the last WWC, Hope Solo retiring from the Seattle Reign as soon as her cut from the WNT meant she wasn't getting a bolstered NWSL salary), poor player behavior not being reprimanded by the USSF (Hope Solo and the van incident), and players having previously undermined and ultimately ousted coaches that were willing to call in a wider field of players (Tom Sermanni)

            Obviously a lot of this is open to interpretation and one person can dislike some of the above behavior by WNT players while another person will look at the above and say the WNT players have done nothing wrong.
            U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
            Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
            I spell Failure with UAF

            Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
            But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
            Originally posted by Doyle Woody
            Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

              Another good example of the "entitled aura" is the situation over the firing of former coach Tom Sermanni (a Scot hired to replace former coach Pia Sundhage in 2012). He experimented with lineups and formations during his term, he called in 44 different players in his ~18 months in charge and wasn't afraid to leave veteran players like Abby Wambach, Carli Lloyd, or Alex Morgan at home or on the bench in favor of giving younger players a shot (a not at all unreasonable or uncommon thing done at the international). He was fired not long after a disappointing Algarve Cup (a formerly prestigious tournament the US does not play in anymore in favor of hosting their tournament the SheBelieves Cup) where the US lost two games.

              It's widely speculated that Sermanni was fired because he was not using veteran players like Wambach, that the veteran players rebelled and demanded Sermanni be fired after speaking to then President Sunil Gulati.
              Last edited by Jimjamesak; 07-10-2019, 08:06 PM.
              U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
              Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
              I spell Failure with UAF

              Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
              But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
              Originally posted by Doyle Woody
              Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                Speaking of the NWSL: Ruh Roh.
                U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                I spell Failure with UAF

                Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                  Hi, I'm Amber Marie, and not only am I a trans girl, I also started watching soccer around the time Zidane committed his infamous headbutt. Then I started watching Newcastle United games about 10 years ago. I've become quite used to play up, "just happy to be here," then get sent back down, and watching the cycle repeat itself.
                  Facebook: bcowles920 Instagram: missthundercat01
                  "One word frees us from the weight and pain of this life. That word is love."- Socrates
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                  Adventures With Amber Marie

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                  • #24
                    Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                    Whoever thought of the International Champions Cup is a genius. Americans complain about paying full price for preseason NFL, but will dish out hundreds to watch preseason soccer. Meanwhile the rest of the world figured it out and makes us export our regular season games. Yes, La Liga is sending regular season games our way, but that's far outnumbered by the zillions of friendlies that take place here.
                    Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                    1966, 1986, 2007

                    Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

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                    • #25
                      Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

                      Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
                      Yes, La Liga is sending regular season games our way, but that's far outnumbered by the zillions of friendlies that take place here.
                      Wait. Really? REALLY?

                      That would be so cool!

                      We need Serie A.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Wait. Really? REALLY?

                        That would be so cool!

                        We need Serie A.
                        No, it’s not happening. Some promoter maybe had a preliminary agreement and announced it but La Liga hadn’t even talked to the teams or players yet.

                        And heck no there should not be any regular season games.

                        But the ICC and Euro friendlies are the most hilarious fleecing of eurosnob rubes ever created. The Barca-Real friendly in Miami was the most obvious, it was cheaper to fly to Madrid/Barcelona and watch a regular season Classico than travel and tickets to that game.
                        U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                        Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                        I spell Failure with UAF

                        Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                        But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                        Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                        Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Wait. Really? REALLY?

                          That would be so cool!

                          We need Serie A.
                          Well, they were, but at least last year’s game was canceled because Barcelona protested and the players around the league all threatened to strike. Not sure if they’re going to try again, but the original plan was for a game a year for 15 years.
                          Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                          1966, 1986, 2007

                          Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
                            Well, they were, but at least last year’s game was canceled because Barcelona protested and the players around the league all threatened to strike. Not sure if they’re going to try again, but the original plan was for a game a year for 15 years.
                            They’re not going to, the logistical nightmare it would create for teams and players will see to that.
                            U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                            Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                            I spell Failure with UAF

                            Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                            But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                            Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                            Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                              They’re not going to, the logistical nightmare it would create for teams and players will see to that.
                              No offense, but if the NFL and MLB can make it work, so could the soccer leagues.

                              The players don't want to do it, fine. But logistics is a bullshiat argument.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by unofan View Post
                                No offense, but if the NFL and MLB can make it work, so could the soccer leagues.

                                The players don't want to do it, fine. But logistics is a bullshiat argument.
                                There’s no bye weeks like in the NFL and they’re not playing every day like MLB. Plus, La Liga’s season is already controversially long anyway, remember when it ran right into the World Cup in 2002?

                                Most importantly, these are leagues where traveling to far flung Euro cities is considered daunting, you really think La Liga is capable of handling the logistics of trying to play a game in Miami?

                                This comes up every few years, even the PL had that 39th game proposal, and it’s always DOA when it comes out.
                                U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                                Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                                I spell Failure with UAF

                                Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                                But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                                Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                                Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                                Comment

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