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Thread: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

  1. #741
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    I agree, with one exception:

    ** Source??

    https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/54581...p-survey-finds
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  2. #742
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Holy hell. I always thought it was a gross exaggeration.

    How reliable is this data? I see they polled an impressive 50k people, but is the pollster reputable? Is the data solid?
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    12 ****ing percent of Bernie supporters voted for Trump? AYFKM?
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    12 ****ing percent of Bernie supporters voted for Trump? AYFKM?
    You have to read into that article though. It was more likely that Bernie-Trump voters were NOT Democrats than Bernie-Clinton or Bernie-3rd Party voters.
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  5. #745
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Well for context, around double that number of Hillary voters voted for McCain over the first black president but Obama still won.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Well for context, around double that number of Hillary voters voted for McCain over the first black president but Obama still won.


    How is that even supposed to refute the article? Your comparison isn't even a good one. Bernie was a far left candidate and Trump was a far right. They would have had to pass over a moderate Dem to get to Trump...

    To go from Hillary, a moderate Dem (or as you describe her, a warmongering conservadem) to Obama (perceived to be a far left candidate) or McCain (perceived to be a moderate,right Rep) meant going half as far to either end of the spectrum.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    You have to read into that article though. It was more likely that Bernie-Trump voters were NOT Democrats than Bernie-Clinton or Bernie-3rd Party voters.
    Exactly. Bernie recruited many non-voters into the system who then voted for Dump. These aren't liberals, they are "burn it to the ground." So when people suggest it was Bernie turncoats who betrayed Hillary by going over to Dump they are missing the point. Those people would never have backed another establishment candidate, Dem or GOP. They were arsonists. They liked Bernie's rhetoric and then they liked Dump's persona as an outside changemaker.

    I expect these people to stay with Dump because he's still feeding the trolls who want to watch the world burn. They probably didn't even give Bernie a look this time around. They've found a home with the Republican terrorists.
    Last edited by Kepler; 08-15-2019 at 03:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    It's all gamesmanship. You aim high and suit your rhetoric to it right up until... you don't.

    I think we may all live long enough to see a TX Senate delegation of 2 Dems, whether that's O'Rourke and Castro or somebody else. I know it's a stupid state and I know the GOP cheats and will only cheat harder as they dwindle, but declaring a pogrom on Latinos is likely not the most effective way for the GOP to recruit them.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Exactly. Bernie recruited many non-voters into the system who then voted for Dump. These aren't Democrats, they are "burn it to the ground." So when people suggest it was Bernie turncoats who betrayed Hillary by going over to Dump they are exactly the missing the point. Those people would never have backed another establishment candidate, Dem or GOP. They were arsonists. They liked Bernie's rhetoric and then they liked Dump's (lying) persona as an outside changemaker.
    That's understandable I guess.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    🖐
    Last time was ~June 1961 right before John Tower won LBJs vacant Senate Seat.

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    I was minus 2.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post


    How is that even supposed to refute the article? Your comparison isn't even a good one. Bernie was a far left candidate and Trump was a far right. They would have had to pass over a moderate Dem to get to Trump...
    I'm providing context because without it the number itself is essentially meaningless. There's always gonna be fringe people in any voting population that votes in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I wouldn't even doubt there was some (small) percentage of Kasich/Cruz/whoever voters that voted for Hillary over Trump. This happens in every primary and it happened in far greater numbers in 2008 with a more establishment dem candidate.

    McCain (perceived to be a moderate,right Rep) meant going half as far to either end of the spectrum.
    The guy never found a war he didn't support and this was while we were already in two forever wars, his answer to a tanked economy was austerity, and he brought on Palin who is a racist buffoon as his VP all the while using racist dog whistles toward the end of his campaign implying Obama had links to terrorists or took money from Palestinian voters. This is all pretty "far right" by any reasonable metric, he didn't use as much fascist rhetoric as Trump but the Republicans used to be more subtle about these things. He also voted with Trump 83% of the time and only voted against him on healthcare either for personal reasons or because the bill wasn't crazy enough for his liking depending on which version you believe.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 08-15-2019 at 03:25 PM.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    McCain was a time serving fraud but it's fun to lionize him now because Dump is obviously so jealous of his legacy. At some level of vegetable sentience Dump realizes he will be remembered as a turd in the American punch bowl and his "movement" as the delusional squealing of Illinois Nazis. That a figure who had no respect for him is respected reminds him he is a fraud.

    I'd twist that knife whenever I got the chance.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    I get it but lionizing McCain and all the awful garbage he supported is just another example of people acting like Trump is the problem that needs to be solved rather than defeating the Republican party and all the regressive garbage they support. Trump didn't just come out of nowhere, he is the natural progression of their constituents' desires.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Something like 34% of kasich backers went for Hillary. Itís in the article I believe.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    That's interesting. For the record I'm not trying to refute the article as much as the arguments those numbers have been used in by certain disingenuous morons.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Exactly. Bernie recruited many non-voters into the system who then voted for Dump. These aren't liberals, they are "burn it to the ground." So when people suggest it was Bernie turncoats who betrayed Hillary by going over to Dump they are missing the point. Those people would never have backed another establishment candidate, Dem or GOP. They were arsonists. They liked Bernie's rhetoric and then they liked Dump's persona as an outside changemaker.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    That's understandable I guess.
    Yes. It makes sense.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Exactly. Bernie recruited many non-voters into the system who then voted for Dump. These aren't liberals, they are "burn it to the ground." So when people suggest it was Bernie turncoats who betrayed Hillary by going over to Dump they are missing the point. Those people would never have backed another establishment candidate, Dem or GOP. They were arsonists. They liked Bernie's rhetoric and then they liked Dump's persona as an outside changemaker.

    I expect these people to stay with Dump because he's still feeding the trolls who want to watch the world burn. They probably didn't even give Bernie a look this time around. They've found a home with the Republican terrorists.
    That is why the Dems not need go after the true MAGAs. Go after the anti-Hills. Dems will win under that plan.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    There's a difference between writing a state off and understanding the long term trends. What part of "the white working class is now permanently right wing" don't you understand?

    We may still be able to squeeze some juice out it one more time, but "450 is my truck and my Math SAT" is Republican forever.

    The realignment of politics in this country is now stable: poorly educated whites and any straggler white fundamentalists not captured by the first category vs the field. That lumpenproletariot isn't getting any bigger. The GOP's only hope is massive suppression measures, restricting redistricting to citizens, and outright ballot theft. Even then, if we remain a democracy the GOP cannot survive demographically as anything but a regional, white power party. Hence the full-throated embrace of fascism by the right now.
    I think the point is we need to see it happen more than once to assume it is a lock from now on. Without a candidate you cant say who will win what and why. I dont think WI and MI are as "lost" as the Chicken Littles do and the Party has to assume they arent or they are wasting their time anyways. It isnt like Trump landslided there or anything he won the "Trump Coalition States" by like 200k TOTAL and turnout was down.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    I think the point is we need to see it happen more than once to assume it is a lock from now on. Without a candidate you cant say who will win what and why. I dont think WI and MI are as "lost" as the Chicken Littles do and the Party has to assume they arent or they are wasting their time anyways. It isnt like Trump landslided there or anything he won the "Trump Coalition States" by like 200k TOTAL and turnout was down.
    In my opinion it was a harbinger.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    I think the point is we need to see it happen more than once to assume it is a lock from now on. Without a candidate you cant say who will win what and why. I dont think WI and MI are as "lost" as the Chicken Littles do and the Party has to assume they arent or they are wasting their time anyways. It isnt like Trump landslided there or anything he won the "Trump Coalition States" by like 200k TOTAL and turnout was down.
    Agreed. Ohio is part of Dumb-Dumb Land for the foreseeable future though.
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