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Thread: New WCHA is dead

  1. #301
    Unobtanium Medallion FadeToBlack&Gold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleRay View Post
    Why would the NE10 DII schools be looking to play up to DI?? They aren't even competitive in a DIII league.
    How dare you let the facts get in the way of wild speculation in a conference realignment thread.

    No Margarita! for that guy.

  2. #302
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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Happy to be of assistance, all. Even if you're flying into BNA or BHM, you're still losing four hours getting your bags into a charter bus and onto I-65/565 to get here. I swear, sometimes I think that the only nice part of a team traveling to UAH is that there's a hotel attached to the arena. Unfortunately, it's an Embassy Suites, and I don't see many nWCHA/SS teams staying there.

    Numbers, I do agree that travel is a big part of it for everyone. If you listen to BG, it's the truth. Why would they (allegedly, and I believe them) reject an NCHC invitation? If you're BG and in a position of strength, the SS is about the perfect league for you knowing that you're never going to crack the B1G, whether to join them or get your CCHA buddies back.

    There are a lot of ways that this could go. Consider that, even though leaving the NCHC is hella expensive and all that, you could get WMU and MU (where Bergeron just landed) to join for a league that's smaller. Stop that swap garbage, though — that's just not happening between an established league and seven independents banded together by treachery and mutually assured destruction.

    And maybe the SS give UAH a pity offer, but if your concern was "we want them to give more money to their program, build that rink that oh by the way wasn't fully green-lit by the UA Board of Trustees, and maybe figure out how to move 250 miles north (as if half of us wouldn't do that in a second)", you have done the Chargers a great disservice. That's why I don't think that UAH as a backup 8th member makes a lick of sense.

    I did semi-joke about the SS keeping it at 7, but they definitely want an eighth team. If you want to stay at 28 league games — and I think that you do — you need that seventh opponent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Define short. BSU <-> BGSU is a long bus ride.
    Can’t speak for Bemidji, but BG chartered a flight for that trip last year.

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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by BGDrew View Post
    Can’t speak for Bemidji, but BG chartered a flight for that trip last year.
    Last year, BSU played at Air Force and then flew to Detroit, I believe, and then bussed down to BG. They then bussed home after.

    In 2016-17, BSU played at Anchorage and then flew into Chicago and bussed over to BG. They then bussed home after.
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  5. #305
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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    All depends on the cost savings. Bowling Pins and their ~20-25,000 tuition-paying students make D1 money that the rest of us pee-ons don't. To be fair, their athletic department also spends a lot more money to remain fully D1 than the rest of us.

    BG can probably afford to fly to MSP and bus to Mankato and Bemidji. I doubt Tech busses to MQT, flies to DTW, and busses to Bowling Green. They take the bus unless the bridge is closed due to weather.
    Last edited by FadeToBlack&Gold; 07-02-2019 at 05:45 PM.

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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Also, as it stands, the tag along six need BGSU in their conference if the new new WCHA is to continue to have a voice at the big boy meetings. Without a full D1 school in the conference, we're all just tag-alongs for whatever the NCHC, B1G, AHA, and HE want with no input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FMR_Alaskan View Post
    I believe if either school loses hockey, they’d need to replace that sport with another to meet minimum NCAA standards yes?

    Whose ready for some GNAC Soccer in Anchorage? ⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️
    NCAA minimum is 10. UAF would need to add something back to meet the NCAA minimum. UAA could end hockey and still be above the minimum (I think they’re at 13 now).

    If the seemingly unthinkable happens, I could see a scenario where one or both of us join the PAC-8 hockey league, which is not just limited to PAC-12 schools (Boise State, San Diego State, and both Washington directional compass schools are in it).

  8. #308
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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    All depends on the cost savings. Bowling Pins and their ~20-25,000 tuition-paying students make D1 money that the rest of us pee-ons don't. To be fair, their athletic department also spends a lot more money to remain fully D1 than the rest of us.

    BG can probably afford to fly to MSP and bus to Mankato and Bemidji. I doubt Tech busses to MQT, flies to DTW, and busses to Bowling Green. They take the bus unless the bridge is closed due to weather.
    Correct. The boys usually fly first class. Well, except for the freshmen. And they get middle seats.

    And the urinals in the Slater Family Ice Arena are gold plated. And we only use Evian to make our ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfmorris View Post
    Happy to be of assistance, all. Even if you're flying into BNA or BHM, you're still losing four hours getting your bags into a charter bus and onto I-65/565 to get here. I swear, sometimes I think that the only nice part of a team traveling to UAH is that there's a hotel attached to the arena. Unfortunately, it's an Embassy Suites, and I don't see many nWCHA/SS teams staying there.

    Numbers, I do agree that travel is a big part of it for everyone. If you listen to BG, it's the truth. Why would they (allegedly, and I believe them) reject an NCHC invitation? If you're BG and in a position of strength, the SS is about the perfect league for you knowing that you're never going to crack the B1G, whether to join them or get your CCHA buddies back.

    There are a lot of ways that this could go. Consider that, even though leaving the NCHC is hella expensive and all that, you could get WMU and MU (where Bergeron just landed) to join for a league that's smaller. Stop that swap garbage, though — that's just not happening between an established league and seven independents banded together by treachery and mutually assured destruction.

    And maybe the SS give UAH a pity offer, but if your concern was "we want them to give more money to their program, build that rink that oh by the way wasn't fully green-lit by the UA Board of Trustees, and maybe figure out how to move 250 miles north (as if half of us wouldn't do that in a second)", you have done the Chargers a great disservice. That's why I don't think that UAH as a backup 8th member makes a lick of sense.

    I did semi-joke about the SS keeping it at 7, but they definitely want an eighth team. If you want to stay at 28 league games — and I think that you do — you need that seventh opponent.

    GFM
    I believe they want to go to 24 conference games. Only the AHA & WCHA currently play more than 24.

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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonsUpPuckDown View Post
    Correct. The boys usually fly first class. Well, except for the freshmen. And they get middle seats.

    And the urinals in the Slater Family Ice Arena are gold plated. And we only use Evian to make our ice.
    OK, I laughed.
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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    I'm unclear on why these seven schools are more morally wrong than the NCHC schools that foisted both Alaskas on the remaining western schools in the first place, particularly when those schools were the ones that could best afford the ancillary costs of those trips that aren't subsidized by Anchorage or Fairbanks.

    Subsidy or not, there are serious detriments to making the Alaska trip(s). Are the NCHC schools getting a pass because they weaseled out of them first, or are they getting a pass because they crapped all over the current WCHA teams as well?

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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    I'm unclear on why these seven schools are more morally wrong than the NCHC schools that foisted both Alaskas on the remaining western schools in the first place, particularly when those schools were the ones that could best afford the ancillary costs of those trips that aren't subsidized by Anchorage or Fairbanks.

    Subsidy or not, there are serious detriments to making the Alaska trip(s). Are the NCHC schools getting a pass because they weaseled out of them first, or are they getting a pass because they crapped all over the current WCHA teams as well?
    Morals do not exist in the board rooms of these schools. get that silly thought out of your head. Nor do they exist anywhere else in college hockey.
    I find this whole things just disgusting to be honest. And i'd bet dollars to donuts that our buddies in Mankato are still going to try to get into the NCHC regardless of all this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    I'm unclear on why these seven schools are more morally wrong than the NCHC schools that foisted both Alaskas on the remaining western schools in the first place, particularly when those schools were the ones that could best afford the ancillary costs of those trips that aren't subsidized by Anchorage or Fairbanks.

    Subsidy or not, there are serious detriments to making the Alaska trip(s). Are the NCHC schools getting a pass because they weaseled out of them first, or are they getting a pass because they crapped all over the current WCHA teams as well?
    You must not visit a lot because the NCHC has received plenty of flak over the years and still does by a few dedicated Tech fans. It’s the Shady Seven’s turn in the spotlight.

  14. #314
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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    I'm unclear on why these seven schools are more morally wrong than the NCHC schools that foisted both Alaskas on the remaining western schools in the first place, particularly when those schools were the ones that could best afford the ancillary costs of those trips that aren't subsidized by Anchorage or Fairbanks.

    Subsidy or not, there are serious detriments to making the Alaska trip(s). Are the NCHC schools getting a pass because they weaseled out of them first, or are they getting a pass because they crapped all over the current WCHA teams as well?
    The music was still playing when the NCHC made their move. The SS killed the DJ and lit two chairs on fire.

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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by SiouxFanatic View Post
    You must not visit a lot because the NCHC has received plenty of flak over the years and still does by a few dedicated Tech fans. It’s the Shady Seven’s turn in the spotlight.
    They aren't Tech fans, they are big school haters.

    *pours on the gas*

    *steps back and lights the match*
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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    Morals do not exist in the board rooms of these schools. get that silly thought out of your head. Nor do they exist anywhere else in college hockey.
    I find this whole things just disgusting to be honest. And i'd bet dollars to donuts that our buddies in Mankato are still going to try to get into the NCHC regardless of all this.
    Apparently you have never met Jerry York. There is no wonder why he is going to the Hall of Fame in Toronto. A first class guy all the way. Jerry has often scheduled out of conference road games while other top echelon schools rarely wander from their home rinks for such games. His reasoning is to get his team ready and lately that has hurt his team by just missing out of the tournament PWR. He is a no nonsense coach that sets high standards and goes by the rules.

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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    “Where there is no vision, the leagues and programs perish.” Proverbs 20:19

    The [new] WCHA was a league formed out of necessity, not by design. Like leagues of necessity before them — Great Western Conference and College Hockey America — the WCHA is perishing. While it is painful to watch unfold (or fold in this case), it isn’t a surprise.

    Most surviving conferences have a vision. Sensible or not, the intent of the vision was well founded.

    Atlantic Hockey was formed by smaller budget programs with scholarship constraints. The Big Ten was formed by existing, long standing conference affiliations and a supposed lucrative television network. The NCHC was formed by programs with a history and commitment to competitiveness on a national platform.

    The [new] WCHA was formed eight years ago when ten teams decided to live under the same roof with varying eagerness. The vision of this relationship looked less like a loving marriage and more like finding a couch to crash on.

    One team jumped ship immediately, Northern Michigan. One team tried to keep it afloat, Bowling Green, by asking MAC buddy Buffalo to reboot hockey. The last team treaded water for half a year when out of the darkness a lifebuoy was tossed their way, Alabama-Huntsville.

    Things could have worked out, but they haven’t. Inevitably, getting out of the relationship, looking for a better ship was going to surface (or is that looking for a better submarine?). A relationship where you feel no connection, feel you aren’t growing, and others aren’t contributing, whether actual or imagined, probably isn't a lasting relationship.

    I feel for Alaska, Alaska-Anchorage, and Alabama-Huntsville (A3? A-3PO’ed? The Three As? The Three Amigos? Amigos without amigos?) I feel for the programs, the players, the fans. It sucks being dumped. Nobody likes being dumped. Nobody likes seeing one dumped when they’ve done nothing wrong. It’s especially difficult when the person being dumped has been a great friend.

    But nobody likes doing the dumping either. The seven schools aren’t the first ones to dump them. They aren’t the first ones to have abandoned ship with no concern for how the castoffs would survive. Fourteen programs came before them.

    Those 14 chose the relationship they felt were best for them. Right or wrong, so are these seven schools. So why are they suffering the scorn? Who deserves the blame for not saving the remaining passengers: the first ones off the ship or the last ones off the ship?

    Why the longing for the common good of college hockey now? It didn’t exist eight years ago. Did it ever exist?

    It didn’t exist when Alabama-Huntsville was rejected by the CCHA.

    It didn’t exist when Wayne State was rejected by the CCHA and folded.

    It didn’t exist in the late 80s, early 90s when Michigan-Dearborn had a full set of scholarships, were playing DI schools, applied twice to the CCHA, were rejected twice and folded.

    It didn’t exist when the NCAA awarded an auto-bid for Independent schools and took Merrimack over U.S. International because of winning percentage even though USIU had swept an undefeated Merrimack team, USIU played just 3 DIII teams while Merrimack played 20, and USIU was coming off of three consecutive winning seasons. USIU folded about two months later.

    It didn’t exist in the late 1970s when UM’s Don Canham tried to merge the CCHA and WCHA, split them into three leagues to save on travel, was rebuffed, St. Louis folded, and Canham took UM to the CCHA with Notre Dame, Michigan State, and Michigan Tech in tow.

    It didn’t exist in 1976 when the NCAA was going to stage a Minnesota-St. Louis tournament play-in game and Herb Brooks threw a fit, getting the NCAA to squash it with pressure from the WCHA leadership and coaches.

    It didn’t exist in the mid 1970s when the three-team CCHA (BG, LSSU, and St. Louis) asked to be absorbed by the WCHA and were rejected.

    Don’t mistake stability for altruism.

    What has sunk the [new] WCHA, like defunct conferences of past, is unification by necessity rather than vision. I hope the Alaska schools and Huntsville find security soon in partnerships they once had in years past.

    Years past, the mid-1990s to be exact, then affiliate CCHA member Alaska-Fairbanks was seeking full membership. One coach from Miami strongly defended the Nanooks in the media when groans over lost class time, long flights, and effects on preparation and performance took hold of the debate. The Miami coach called the concerns ridiculous and pushed for admittance of UAF. That same coach, George Gwozdecky, was grinning widely at a podium in 2011 when the “National Collegiate Hockey Conference” name was unveiled, leaving behind 11 schools, including Alaska-Fairbanks.
    Last edited by John Biasi; 07-02-2019 at 10:06 PM.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by davyd83 View Post
    I believe they want to go to 24 conference games. Only the AHA & WCHA currently play more than 24.
    I think reducing the footprint of the league and having 7-8 teams is a perfect chance to stick with 24 game league schedule. The “SS” as it appears people are calling them have many close rivals they can play from the B10 and NCHC. So BSU or MSUM for example can replace games from UAF, AA with more und, umd, scsu and gophers, etc. those local names will help draw more and are at least possible to drive to watch as a road game. All that helps the bottom line. Geography matters when you aren’t flush with cash.

    So yeah, it sucks to get left behind, those 7 know the feeling well, but I like that they are making something happen now rather than “wait and hope”

    I also agree with the podcast, these 7 got this started, but doesn’t mean they end up together in the end. The biggest loss of the old WCHA was the final five tournament. That is never coming back, but maybe the swap of the MN schools for the MAC schools happen after a few “prove it years” of this new conference? With a smaller yet footprint, those tournaments get a boost of fans.

    Just my 2 cents

  19. #319
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    Re: New WCHA is dead

    Everyone keeps saying "I hope Anchorage, Alaska and Huntsville find a new home" or words to that effect.

    With whom? The Three Little Pigs? The Seven Dwarfs? There is no conference out there that wants them. Maybe - MAYBE - the AHA will take Huntsville. Who wants the Alaska teams? The Big Mistake is not an option. Obviously Hockey East and the ECAC are out. The NCHC? Get real. The WCHA teams just kicked them to the curb. Maybe Huntsville and the Alaska teams can join with Arizona State to form the Island of Misfit Toys Conference. ASU can use its clout with the NC$$ to get an exemption like the CHA had so it gets an autobid with only four teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FMR_Alaskan View Post
    I believe if either school loses hockey, they’d need to replace that sport with another to meet minimum NCAA standards yes?

    Whose ready for some GNAC Soccer in Anchorage? ⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️
    Wait, didn't the muni buy turf for the Sully?

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