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  • #76
    Re: Ak/uaa

    Okay, what's the total Athletics budget for all schools? I presume that Southeast has a small amount of varsity programs with an outlay. It doesn't matter if the programs are bleeding money — spending any single dollar is the issue here.

    GFM
    Geof F. Morris
    UAH BSE MAE 2002
    UAHHockey.com

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
      Okay, what's the total Athletics budget for all schools? I presume that Southeast has a small amount of varsity programs with an outlay. It doesn't matter if the programs are bleeding money — spending any single dollar is the issue here.

      GFM
      They had slides breaking down each campus, and I forgot to screenshot the UAA slide. (They jumped over the UA_ slide fast.)

      But, taking a peek at the Equity in Athletics website (https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/)

      UAA total expenses $11,943,638.
      UA_ total expenses $6,267,861.
      UAS does not have an entry, as there are no NCAA sanctioned sports on their campus.
      Last edited by aparch; 07-16-2019, 03:33 PM.
      “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

      Live Radio from 100.3

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      • #78
        Re: Ak/uaa

        Sadly, that does a pretty good stab at keeping the massacre on the academic side down.

        GFM
        Geof F. Morris
        UAH BSE MAE 2002
        UAHHockey.com

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Ak/uaa

          To me the bottom line is that unless people are personally affected, which so far they have not been, then they are ok with whatever.
          MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

          It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
            Sadly, that does a pretty good stab at keeping the massacre on the academic side down.

            GFM
            Honestly? It should. The PR of keeping a hemorrhaging athletic department afloat while cutting academic programs would be a pretty bad look.
            Co-Founder/Editor of BGSUHockey.com

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Ak/uaa

              Found their powerpoint:

              https://go.boarddocs.com/ak/alaska/Board.nsf/Public
              “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

              Live Radio from 100.3

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Ak/uaa

                Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                45% of us tried our best, now being decimated by the 55%.
                Promise the rubes $6,000 something and a Unicorn and in Alaska you get elected Governor.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Ak/uaa

                  Originally posted by Seawolf Fan View Post
                  Promise the rubes $6,000 something and a Unicorn and in Alaska you get elected Governor.
                  Sad but true. He was elected because of greed.
                  Originally Posted by aparch
                  I love the "UA_" comment. When I see it, I think of re-runs of Match Game, and Gene Rayburn going "U, A, Blank... UA blank"

                  From ADN:

                  "According to NCAA, the (UAF) hockey team used ineligible players in every game played from the 2007-08 season to the 2010-11 season. Over that span, the wins and ties will all become losses. 4 wins and 2 ties came against rival UAA".

                  UAF is 56-86-12 vs. UAA.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Ak/uaa

                    Originally posted by Numbers View Post
                    Isn't it true that the only politics involved here is in Alaska?
                    That's a valid point; greed and stupidity exist in every State and in every Nation.

                    But everywhere you go, the backlash -ironically- by the middle-class directed against itself is baffling. Guess the 39% is still waiting for the trickle-down to work, for once..?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Ak/uaa

                      Originally posted by aparch View Post
                      They had slides breaking down each campus, and I forgot to screenshot the UAA slide. (They jumped over the UA_ slide fast.)

                      But, taking a peek at the Equity in Athletics website (https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/)

                      UAA total expenses $11,943,638.
                      UA_ total expenses $6,267,861.
                      UAS does not have an entry, as there are no NCAA sanctioned sports on their campus.
                      Expenses are not how much the schools lose on athletics as they have revenue that comes in as well. My NCAA financials spreadsheet only goes to 2016 (I have the UAA financials for 2017 & 2018, but I'm still waiting on 10 schools, including UA_ for 2017 & 2018 financials). The net loss for UAA in 2018 was $9,983,296 ($2 million less) and the average loss for 2014-18 was $9,700,247. However, I believe that UAA will still have to honor all offered aid to incoming freshmen who signed NLIs and I would expect them to also honor aid to all returning athletes, which for 2018 amounted to $2,986,762, with the 2014-18 average $2,746,421. I so then cutting all UAA athletics would save about $7 million for the year, assuming they would not also have to pay the balance of all the coaches contracts.

                      UA_ total expenses in 2016 came to $7,355,770 (they have actually been trimming expenses since 2012 when expenses totaled $8,871,738). The net loss for UA_ in 2016 was $5,453,171, with an average loss for 2014-16 of $6,080,019. Again, their athletic aid for 2016 amounted to $1,330,409, with an average of $1,350,195 for 2016-18. So cutting UA_ athletics would save about $4.1 million for the year, again assuming they would not have to pay the balance of coaches contracts.

                      So, the combined savings would probably be less than $11 million, if athletics was completely eliminated at UAA and UA_. I will update UA_ numbers once I receive their 2017 & 2018 financials.

                      Sean
                      Last edited by Sean Pickett; 07-17-2019, 08:02 AM.
                      Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                      Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                      BU Hockey Games
                      BU Hockey highlights and extras
                      NCAA Hockey Financials
                      Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                      I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Ak/uaa

                        Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                        Expenses are not how much the schools lose on athletics as they have revenue that comes in as well. My NCAA financials spreadsheet only goes to 2016 (I have the UAA financials for 2017 & 2018, but I'm still waiting on 10 schools, including UA_ for 2017 & 2018 financials). The net loss for UAA in 2018 was $9,983,296 ($2 million less) and the average loss for 2014-18 was $9,700,247. However, I believe that UAA will still have to honor all offered aid to incoming freshmen who signed NLIs and I would expect them to also honor aid to all returning athletes, which for 2018 amounted to $2,986,762, with the 2014-18 average $2,746,421. I so then cutting all UAA athletics would save about $7 million for the year, assuming they would not also have to pay the balance of all the coaches contracts.

                        UA_ total expenses in 2016 came to $7,355,770 (they have actually been trimming expenses since 2012 when expenses totaled $8,871,738). The net loss for UA_ in 2016 was $5,453,171, with an average loss for 2014-16 of $6,080,019. Again, their athletic aid for 2016 amounted to $1,330,409, with an average of $1,350,195 for 2016-18. So cutting UA_ athletics would save about $4.1 million for the year, again assuming they would not have to pay the balance of coaches contracts.

                        So, the combined savings would probably be less than $11 million, if athletics was completely eliminated at UAA and UA_. I will update UA_ numbers once I receive their 2017 & 2018 financials.

                        Sean

                        Sean
                        Interesting numbers, thanks for the info. Since UAA is moving games to campus, it will actually make more money starting this season than it has in the past. The Sully charged somewhere in the ballpark of $25,000 for each series. I believe UA_ pays a similar amount to play at the Carlson. UAA playing on campus will save that huge expense, and now they will get to keep all of the money from parking, advertising, concessions, etc. So I would be curious to know how that additional bit of information changes their debt.
                        Originally Posted by aparch
                        I love the "UA_" comment. When I see it, I think of re-runs of Match Game, and Gene Rayburn going "U, A, Blank... UA blank"

                        From ADN:

                        "According to NCAA, the (UAF) hockey team used ineligible players in every game played from the 2007-08 season to the 2010-11 season. Over that span, the wins and ties will all become losses. 4 wins and 2 ties came against rival UAA".

                        UAF is 56-86-12 vs. UAA.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Ak/uaa

                          Originally posted by Suze View Post
                          Interesting numbers, thanks for the info. Since UAA is moving games to campus, it will actually make more money starting this season than it has in the past. The Sully charged somewhere in the ballpark of $25,000 for each series. I believe UA_ pays a similar amount to play at the Carlson. UAA playing on campus will save that huge expense, and now they will get to keep all of the money from parking, advertising, concessions, etc. So I would be curious to know how that additional bit of information changes their debt.
                          The NCAA financials have an expenses category for "debt service payments (principal and interest, including internal loan programs), leases and rental fees for athletics facilities for the reporting year regardless of entity paying (athletics, institution or other)." since 2015. Before that they used "direct facilities costs charged to intercollegiate athletics, including building and grounds maintenance, utilities, rentals fees, operating leases, equipment repair and maintenance, and debt service." I have columns for both on my spreadsheet and UAA reported the following amounts for debt service/leases for 2015-18:
                          2015 $163,065
                          2016 $196,985
                          2017 $186,722
                          2018 $207,484
                          The direct facilities costs were much lower for 2012-14, but about $185 thousand for 2010 and 2011. The financials also have a revenue category for "Revenues from: Game Programs, Novelties, Food and Concessions, Parking." and UAA has reported revenue for the category every year I have compiled information for (2010-18), so it appears that they do receive at least of that revenue.

                          For UA_ the facility debt/lease costs for 2015 & 2016 were:
                          2015 $179,307
                          2016 $186,740
                          For 2014 the direct cost was $254,281, but before that it appears that UA_ did not breakdown the cost of the facilities for hockey. UA_ also reported revenue from parking and game sales for 2010-16.

                          Also, for what it's worth, UA_ reported direct state support for athletics averaging just over $3 million per year for 2010-13. That included an average of $750 thousand a year that went to the hockey team.

                          Sean
                          Last edited by Sean Pickett; 07-17-2019, 08:30 AM.
                          Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                          Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                          BU Hockey Games
                          BU Hockey highlights and extras
                          NCAA Hockey Financials
                          Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                          I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Ak/uaa

                            Originally posted by Suze View Post
                            Interesting numbers, thanks for the info. Since UAA is moving games to campus, it will actually make more money starting this season than it has in the past. The Sully charged somewhere in the ballpark of $25,000 for each series. I believe UA_ pays a similar amount to play at the Carlson. UAA playing on campus will save that huge expense, and now they will get to keep all of the money from parking, advertising, concessions, etc. So I would be curious to know how that additional bit of information changes their debt.
                            I don't know what the contract UAA has, but $25,000 for a weekend is not a lot. If UAA has 8 home series, the expense fee for the Sully is $200,000/hockey season.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Ak/uaa

                              Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                              Expenses are not how much the schools lose on athletics as they have revenue that comes in as well. My NCAA financials spreadsheet only goes to 2016 (I have the UAA financials for 2017 & 2018, but I'm still waiting on 10 schools, including UA_ for 2017 & 2018 financials). The net loss for UAA in 2018 was $9,983,296 ($2 million less) and the average loss for 2014-18 was $9,700,247. However, I believe that UAA will still have to honor all offered aid to incoming freshmen who signed NLIs and I would expect them to also honor aid to all returning athletes, which for 2018 amounted to $2,986,762, with the 2014-18 average $2,746,421. I so then cutting all UAA athletics would save about $7 million for the year, assuming they would not also have to pay the balance of all the coaches contracts.

                              UA_ total expenses in 2016 came to $7,355,770 (they have actually been trimming expenses since 2012 when expenses totaled $8,871,738). The net loss for UA_ in 2016 was $5,453,171, with an average loss for 2014-16 of $6,080,019. Again, their athletic aid for 2016 amounted to $1,330,409, with an average of $1,350,195 for 2016-18. So cutting UA_ athletics would save about $4.1 million for the year, again assuming they would not have to pay the balance of coaches contracts.

                              So, the combined savings would probably be less than $11 million, if athletics was completely eliminated at UAA and UA_. I will update UA_ numbers once I receive their 2017 & 2018 financials.

                              Sean
                              I understand your point, but that's probably not how the UA System is bookkeeping things. I've heard in another thread (or maybe this one) that UAF may drop all University-supported research. All research dollars supported by a university are generally met by grants from outside entities or matching dollars from the Federal government. UAF is a land grant / space grant school, so turning those monies down would be huge. BUUUUUUT the budget process there may not care about matching dollars and grants — just outlay.

                              GFM
                              Geof F. Morris
                              UAH BSE MAE 2002
                              UAHHockey.com

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Ak/uaa

                                Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                                I understand your point, but that's probably not how the UA System is bookkeeping things. I've heard in another thread (or maybe this one) that UAF may drop all University-supported research. All research dollars supported by a university are generally met by grants from outside entities or matching dollars from the Federal government. UAF is a land grant / space grant school, so turning those monies down would be huge. BUUUUUUT the budget process there may not care about matching dollars and grants — just outlay.

                                GFM
                                Geof, there is NO WAY that UAF will eliminate all research at UAF. There is just no way that will happen. If they employ this "one university model" (I oppose this), then Research will be at UAF and just The medical programs will be at UAA. However, I believe at least UAA will keep athletics (except hockey).

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