POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

[rufus]

I would not be fine with a 2nd term for Trump. But I will not compromise my values just to vote someone out of office. How the heck does anyone think we got in this mess in the first place? It wasn't s/he's good. It was s/he's not as bad as what we have. How the hell is that improvement?

Because you and people like you could not compromise their values and vote for Hillary, despite the certain dumpster fire that awaited them should she lose that election.

Congratulations, you got what you wanted. The country can go to hell, but your precious "values" are still intact.

[rufus]

I would not be fine with a 2nd term for Trump. But I will not compromise my values just to vote someone out of office. How the heck does anyone think we got in this mess in the first place? It wasn't s/he's good. It was s/he's not as bad as what we have. How the hell is that improvement?

The flu's not as bad as pancreatic cancer. But really, what's the difference? I feel like chit either way. Bring on the chemo. Might be fun.

[rufus]

How the hell is that improvement?

But to be serious

Seriously? Are you really that friggin' dense? "How is that improvement?"

Hmmmmmm, let me think.

Well, for starters, there wouldn't be a couple thousand Latin American parents wondering where their kids are. There wouldn't be a couple thousand brown kids wondering if they'll ever see their parents again. Thanks, Trump.

We also wouldn't be dumping coal ash directly into our streams and rivers. Thanks Trump.

We also wouldn't be allowing those increased levels of radiation into our atmosphere. But, thanks Trump.

When we claim to have intelligence that a certain nation was behind an attack, our allies would take our word for it and believe it, not laugh in our face and dismiss us out of hand. Thanks Trump.

Oh yeah, and we'd still have allies, too.

Consumers wouldn't be paying more for everything due to stupid tariffs. Thanks Trump. And we still would have a soybean industry.

And billionaires wouldn't have gotten a $1.5 trillion government handout. Thanks Trump.

Just a few examples.

And if you dare say we're not sure that any of that might have happened under Hillary anyway, I swear I'll strangle you in your sleep

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

[rufus]

Congratulations on finding the one Dem candidate that Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins both like?

Rube's ideal "centrist" candidate.

[rufus]

I think any one of us would make a better prez than Trump. We wouldn't know what we were doing, either, but at least we'd realize it and get some decent advisers.

But how would you know what a decent advisor was?

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

I think any one of us would make a better prez than Trump.

But you won't vote in such a manner to make sure that doesn't happen.

Handy sftu

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

But you won't vote in such a manner to make sure that doesn't happen.

Handy sftu

It won't matter in MN anyways.

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

I understand a lot of what Rube is saying, I think. I've voted third party before, and I may again. But I learned a big lesson from a mistake I made which was extremely costly.

I voted Nader in 2000 because I felt he was right about about the harm large corporate interests were were inflicting here and abroad. He'd always been a advocate for the underrepresented. Wisconsin went Gore--barely--so I could argue that my misjudgment was not causal, but that is a cop out. People like me put Dubya in the WH, and it cost us dearly. Most dems in Congress supported the Iraq invasion, given the information that was provided to them, but everyone knew Dubya would invade the minute 9/11 happened. I don't think that would have been the case with Gore. It may be that neither of them was desirable, but they weren't the same, and that election cost us. I contributed to that result.

All but the blind could see in 2016 that Trump was capable of being every bit as bad as he has been. No matter how tepid my feelings about his opponent were, there is no way I would risk putting someone like him in the WH. I learned that lesson.

But we need strong 3rd party participation, and I hope I will be able to vote third party again someday. But I will only do that if I am completely convinced that my vote for a third party will not put a predictably bad person in office. Simply feeling that neither the R nor the D are up to my standards is not enough. The stakes are too high. I learned that lesson in 2000, and I have to think many learned it in '16.

[Handyman]

Rube's ideal "centrist" candidate.

Klobuchar is a centrist?

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

I understand a lot of what Rube is saying, I think. I've voted third party before, and I may again. But I learned a big lesson from a mistake I made which was extremely costly.

I voted Nader in 2000 because I felt he was right about about the harm large corporate interests were were inflicting here and abroad. He'd always been a advocate for the underrepresented. Wisconsin went Gore--barely--so I could argue that my misjudgment was not causal, but that is a cop out. People like me put Dubya in the WH, and it cost us dearly. Most dems in Congress supported the Iraq invasion, given the information that was provided to them, but everyone knew Dubya would invade the minute 9/11 happened. I don't think that would have been the case with Gore. It may be that neither of them was desirable, but they weren't the same, and that election cost us. I contributed to that result.

All but the blind could see in 2016 that Trump was capable of being every bit as bad as he has been. No matter how tepid my feelings about his opponent were, there is no way I would risk putting someone like him in the WH. I learned that lesson.

But we need strong 3rd party participation, and I hope I will be able to vote third party again someday. But I will only do that if I am completely convinced that my vote for a third party will not put a predictably bad person in office. Simply feeling that neither the R nor the D are up to my standards is not enough. The stakes are too high. I learned that lesson in 2000, and I have to think many learned it in '16.

This is antiquated, but I was solid for Coleman for MN guv way back. I stepped in the voting booth, and asked myself "What if?" as to Ventura. Ended up voting Ventura. He may be a complete nut now, but he wasn't then. If more people ask themselves, "What if?" we'll go through some serious growing pains (we're seeing it now, given the last election involving Bernie Bros, Hill, and Trumpers) but I hope it's possible. I'd like to believe it, but we're not there yet.

[BassAle]

This is antiquated, but I was solid for Coleman for MN guv way back. I stepped in the voting booth, and asked myself "What if?" as to Ventura. Ended up voting Ventura. He may be a complete nut now, but he wasn't then. If more people ask themselves, "What if?" we'll go through some serious growing pains (we're seeing it now, given the last election involving Bernie Bros, Hill, and Trumpers) but I hope it's possible. I'd like to believe it, but we're not there yet.

You know before Election Day if a 3rd party candidate has a shot or if you’re throwing your vote away. Maine has had independent governors and we have an independent senator now. We’ve had a bunch of Green Party in the state House. Trump vs Biden or Trump vs Sanders, 3rd party is throwing your vote away to the benefit of Trump because he’s not getting your vote and it’s better for him if you don’t vote for the only person that had a chance of beating him. Same with not voting.

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

You know before Election Day if a 3rd party candidate has a shot or if you’re throwing your vote away. Maine has had independent governors and we have an independent senator now. We’ve had a bunch of Green Party in the state House. Trump vs Biden or Trump vs Sanders, 3rd party is throwing your vote away to the benefit of Trump because he’s not getting your vote and it’s better for him if you don’t vote for the only person that had a chance of beating him. Same with not voting.

No one knew if Ventura had a shot. I say this will all honesty. No. One. Knew.

Heck, the majority thought Trump was going to lose. Oops.

[busterman62]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

No one knew if Ventura had a shot. I say this will all honesty. No. One. Knew.

Heck, the majority thought Trump was going to lose. Oops.

The Politicos here at USCHO (along with the media, etc.) had me convinced the HRC was a lock.

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.

You know before Election Day if a 3rd party candidate has a shot or if you’re throwing your vote away. Maine has had independent governors and we have an independent senator now. We’ve had a bunch of Green Party in the state House. Trump vs Biden or Trump vs Sanders, 3rd party is throwing your vote away to the benefit of Trump because he’s not getting your vote and it’s better for him if you don’t vote for the only person that had a chance of beating him. Same with not voting.

Actually that is the one time I have seen where polling seemed to have no clue what was going on leading up to election day. You had one candidate who stole the nomination because of his name which caused the other candidate to switch parties from D to R. Ventura was expected to finish third but that is because polling underestimated the youth vote. Ventura did a campus tour the last week or so barnstorming every college and it worked to perfection.