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Thread: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

  1. #701
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Mike Gravel is alright but other than that meh.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    That works. Berners should be happy, since that would currently only eliminate a bunch of "boring centrist warmonger" hangers-on.
    Who isnt a "boring centrist warmonger" according to a Berner?
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Who isnt a "boring centrist warmonger" according to a Berner?
    Warren was up there, until it came out she's made too much money off Wall Street consulting, or something. Harris should be up there, but I guess she's too pro-cop.
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  4. #704
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Warren's problem IRT foreign policy would be her stance on Venezuela and Israel:
    While she’s voted for military de-escalation on some issues, including ending the Yemen War, she’s gone along with some of the most belligerent acts that have occurred under her watch, cheerleading Israel’s devastating 2014 war on Gaza and vocalizing her support for sanctions against Venezuela. Even judged according to the spectrum of today’s Democratic Party, which is skewed so far to the right on war and militarism it does not take much to distinguish oneself, Warren gets an unsatisfactory grade: not the last in her class, but far from first.
    She's not as right as the rest of the party in that regard but she's not as consistently good on that subject as Bernie or Gravel (yes we all know he's not not a viable candidate, but it's worth mentioning) either. Also her idea of tying green energy to the military is actually pretty awful.

    All that said she's still better on that subject than all but 2 of the people running which shows you how bad the rest of them are. Yes we can and should do better on foreign policy, it's been a disaster for far too long and acting like this is some pie in the sky idea to oppose pointless wars abroad is ridiculous. But people like Handy will keep doing it because he doesn't actually care about the human suffering this country causes because if team D wins that solves everything.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 05-29-2019 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #705
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Sanctions against the Maduro regime is hardly a "belligerent" military escalation.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Sanctions against the Maduro regime is hardly a "belligerent" military escalation.
    According to a study by economists Mark Weisbrot and Jeffrey Sachs for the Center for Economic and Policy Research, sanctions are estimated to have killed forty thousand people from 2017 to 2018. These sanctions, they write, would “fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population as described in both the Geneva and Hague international conventions.”
    right...

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Warren was up there, until it came out she's made too much money off Wall Street consulting, or something. Harris should be up there, but I guess she's too pro-cop.
    I'm the closest there is here to a "Berner" and I would celebrate either Warren or Harris as President.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    right...
    I don't see how that's relevant in this instance. The corrupt Maduro regime didn't properly re-budget and reallocate its oil money once the global price per barrel plummeted. Instead they made sure the inner party elites, wealthy bureaucrats, and military (who all keep Maduro in power) got paid first, and people have already been starving to death in the streets for years because of it.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    You don't see how sanctions killing 40K people is relevant? Ok...

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I'm the closest there is here to a "Berner" and I would celebrate either Warren or Harris as President.
    No you arenít. You really arenít. A Berner (Bernout, Bernie Bro, etc.) is a practically perjorative term for ďBernie or BustĒ voters. Youíre just a democratic socialist who knows 40% > 0%. You advocate progressive policies but arenít going to let them be an anchor around your neck.

    Donít lump yourself into that crowd.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    No you aren’t. You really aren’t. A Berner (Bernout, Bernie Bro, etc.) is a practically perjorative term for “Bernie or Bust” voters. You’re just a democratic socialist who knows 40% > 0%. You advocate progressive policies but aren’t going to let them be an anchor around your neck.

    Don’t lump yourself into that crowd.
    I'm saying "the closest to." I don't think there are very many liberals left of me who would, for example, stay home if Bernie isn't nominated. Of course there are some: in every MLB stadium you can find one monster who likes strawberry ice cream. But just because there are oddball lunatics here and there doesn't constitute a trend.

    On policy, I am with Salvor Hardin: never let your principles get in the way of doing what's right. And for that matter, don't confuse your beliefs with the truth. The fact that I could be wrong about the Workers Paradise makes it easier for me to see it not come to fruition. That's the difference between reason and its opposite, belief. Reason understands its limits and is willing to compromise.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-29-2019 at 12:26 PM.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    You don't see how sanctions killing 40K people is relevant? Ok...
    Trix, this attitude of, "Every issue is black or white, there is no gray" is why we make fun of you. It's almost funny how much you sound like Shrub when he talked about the Axis of Evil and said, "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

    I would agree that keeping up economic and travel embargoes on, say, Cuba is definitely stupid, especially since the Soviet Union has been deader than a doornail for almost 30 years. Clinton should've started the process of reopening relations in the 90s, so that we could eventually turn them into an ally or at least a neutral nation.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Trix, this attitude of, "Every issue is black or white, there is no gray" is why we make fun of you. It's almost funny how much you sound like Shrub when he talked about the Axis of Evil and said, "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

    I would agree that keeping up economic and travel embargoes on, say, Cuba is definitely stupid, especially since the Soviet Union has been deader than a doornail for almost 30 years. Clinton should've started the process of reopening relations in the 90s, so that we could eventually turn them into an ally or at least a neutral nation.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    LMFAO, yeah let's just levy personal attacks and not respond to the actual substance once we're proven objectively wrong . This isn't even a difficult issue to comprehend, the party has been regressive when it comes to foreign policy and human rights issues specifically as it relates to things like sanctions, Palestinian rights, foreign intervention (that mostly just serves the purposes of a few oligarchs), and the really regressive ones like Manchin even saved the Saudi Arms sales deal because... Į\_(ツ)_/Į. It's not difficult to see that both parties have been horrible on this going as far back as Vietnam. The fact that there are maybe 2 candidates who are good on foreign policy issues (I wouldn't even say great in Bernie's case), one of which is a completely non-viable 90 YO candidate who has a couple teens running most of his messaging, is pathetic. We can and should do better and being the party that kills slightly less civilians overseas than Republicans just makes it easier for the Republicans to both sides that issue as well.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Join the Revolution...BECOME A WAR MONGERING CONSERVADEM! It is way more fun from where I sit

    I mean sure...I am about as close to a Conservadem as I am to being an Anarchist but according to the Bernout Handbook (brought to you by Mother Jones) anyone who isnt in 100% lockstep with the agenda is a Reagan Republican AT BEST! I abhor war, believe in pretty much every Progressive Policy there is but since I choose to understand that you cant just flip a switch and offer free stuff on day 1 and that there isnt always a black and white answer to every issue that proves I am just a Centrist Piece of Scum who supports Infinite Wars and Half Measures!

    Come to Dark Side Fade...set your mind free
    This would be a funny retort if anybody was saying anything like it to you.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Join the Revolution...BECOME A WAR MONGERING CONSERVADEM! It is way more fun from where I sit

    I mean sure...I am about as close to a Conservadem as I am to being an Anarchist but according to the Bernout Handbook (brought to you by Mother Jones) anyone who isnt in 100% lockstep with the agenda is a Reagan Republican AT BEST! I abhor war, believe in pretty much every Progressive Policy there is but since I choose to understand that you cant just flip a switch and offer free stuff on day 1 and that there isnt always a black and white answer to every issue that proves I am just a Centrist Piece of Scum who supports Infinite Wars and Half Measures!

    Come to Dark Side Fade...set your mind free
    I didn't sign up for this but I think Kep and trix already paid my membership dues, so count me in!!!!
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I didn't sign up for this but I think Kep and trix already paid my membership dues, so count me in!!!!
    You can always judge the quality of an argument by its specificity. To the extent that it reasons through logical evaluation of statements with examples it may be sound. To the extent that it is generic and lapses into rhetorical flourishes, it is likely just posturing and not serious argumentation.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    You can always judge the quality of an argument by its specificity. To the extent that it reasons through logical evaluation of statements with examples it may be sound. To the extent that it is generic and lapses into rhetorical flourishes, it is likely just posturing and not serious argumentation.
    You can also judge it if its mindless word garble. I'll enter your quote above as evidence. Now please remember to thank Mrs. Kep for writing the check for my membership dues to the ConservaDem society that you've volunteered me and Handy for. Her salary still pays all the bills, right?
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    You can also judge it if its mindless word garble. I'll enter your quote above as evidence. Now please remember to thank Mrs. Kep for writing the check for my membership dues to the ConservaDem society that you've volunteered me and Handy for. Her salary still pays all the bills, right?
    Your ability to follow a statement speaks to BU, not the statement.

    Last I calculated I contribute enough to cover the laundry room and half the kitchen island.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    This would be a funny retort if anybody was saying anything like it to you.
    You might want to read what people post...consider it research for your soliloquies

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