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Thread: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Yeah... I don't see any reason to have faith in the SC not striking down a voting rights law, especially under an even more ridiculous makeup than what it was in 2013. They basically just ignored the 15th amendment with that ruling.
    Ummm....then why haven't they struck down all existing voting rights laws yet?
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    There are parts of the Democratic Party (myself for one) that will not vote for Joe in the primary because of this stupidity. He gets my vote for President over Trump but that, as we saw in 2016, may not be enough to get everyone out.
    If there are enough of you out there he won't win the nomination so case solved. If he does I don't think Joe will myopic enough to Hillary the base. Never mind everyone of these guys have handlers - surely they won't allow it to happen.

    If we're being honest if an avowed liberal doesn't vote for the Democratic nominee because they aver to try and bring some civility back into play then ****** that voter and the horse they rode in on. I expect such a boorish and childish approach from a Republican, but a liberals should know and do better.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Maybe slappy is an Asian female. Does that count?
    Well we know you can't handle either one so in this case we're essentially one in the same.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Ummm....then why haven't they struck down all existing voting rights laws yet?
    Because racist states can (and already have) go back to blatantly discriminating after that ridiculous ruling...

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    If there are enough of you out there he won't win the nomination so case solved. If he does I don't think Joe will myopic enough to Hillary the base. Never mind everyone of these guys have handlers - surely they won't allow it to happen.

    If we're being honest if an avowed liberal doesn't vote for the Democratic nominee because they aver to try and bring some civility back into play then ****** that voter and the horse they rode in on. I expect such a boorish and childish approach from a Republican, but a liberals should know and do better.
    There won't be. We'll be stuck with him, or someone like him. And I'll plug my nose and check the box anyway.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    I get that we need a strong swing back to the left. Kep touched on this point in a later post which I'll comment on in a sec.

    What I'm suggesting is that we use 2020 just to get our foot in the door so to speak. Trying to swing everyone dead left will leave some behind (like what Bernie-Bros did to Hilary in 2016). That's why I think we go with the "safe" route next year. Don't swing for a home run when a single through the infield will suffice

    This times 10000000.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Because racist states can (and already have) go back to blatantly discriminating after that ridiculous ruling...
    That....doesn't...make...sense....

    Republicans want to stop anybody from voting who isn't already one of their supporters. Black, white, brown, green. It doesn't matter. Getting rid of Motor Voter or the VRA would go a long way to furthering those aims.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    This times 10000000.
    That's what Obama was for and look at us now.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    That....doesn't...make...sense....

    Republicans want to stop anybody from voting who isn't already one of their supporters. Black, white, brown, green. It doesn't matter.
    Yeah... and the SC is even further to the right than it was in 2013, why the hell would they not uphold a challenge to HR1 if it was presented? They've already gutted the enforcement of the voting rights act, it's not like they need to overturn every single word of the voting rights act to achieve their goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Getting rid of Motor Voter or the VRA would go a long way to furthering those aims.
    They upheld Ohio purging the voter rolls...

    Sorry but if you're going to argue that the SC is going to somehow be impartial and not uphold challenges to HR1 or other progressive legislation if presented to them then lmao.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 05-23-2019 at 02:34 PM.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Democrats suck at campaigning.

    Why hasn't this been labeled a tax on the lower and middle class? Walmart Shoppers are paying this. This is a MASSIVE TAX INCREASE on the American People.


    The newest round of U.S. tariffs on Chinese imports will cost the typical American household $831 annually, researchers said on Thursday, as the Trump administration came under growing political pressure over its trade war with China.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Kep, what you're proposing isn't leftism, its communism.
    Communism means workers' collectives owning the means of production, eliminating private property, and eliminating wages (since they are pointless in a communist economy). I am nowhere near advocating that, nor would I since I am dead set against the latter two and think the former is utterly unrealistic for a non-government entity and hugely overreaching in most midsize to small industries even if it were done by the government.

    Leftism is socialism, which I advocate, though, I am far from doctrinaire or radical. Socialism means the government (not workers soviets) owns key industries, workers are still employees but heavily unionized, private property is still protected although there are limits at the very high end, wages still exist and people can spend whatever they want on whatever they want to buy. I like the right of private property and I like personal freedom so I am against communism. But I don't just care about myself and I want other people to have a good life regardless of how much money their daddy had, and I want small businesses to have as good a chance to compete in the free market as big businesses, so I am against capitalism. I want to nationalize the energy and finance sectors because the private interests which manage those are predatory sociopaths and in any case incompetent and an existential threat to our species.

    The fact that you don't know this simple difference, and wouldn't respect it even if you did, is worth more than anything I could say in characterizing exactly what you are, politically. Suffice that the current situation is so dire we need you but in a normal world you would be a solid economic conservative. That you vote Democratic tells me everything I need to know about how far this country has moved to the lunatic right.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-23-2019 at 02:48 PM.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post

    I honestly have no idea what this means. The economic/trade policies of the Obamas and Clintons of the world has left large swaths of the population behind economically and inequality/poverty has just grown significantly worse during that time, our climate is even more ****ed, less people have access to healthcare than before, medical bankruptcies are up, and the unsustainable "status quo" isn't working anymore. I'd fear that far more people are gonna get left behind trying to "get our foot in the door" with someone like Biden who has all but said he plans to do nothing about any of this stuff. His climate adviser got $1 million from the fossil fuel industry. He has a Blackwater lobbyist as another adviser. He's already on record saying that Republicans are his friends and that Trump is the only problem with the other side. There's no reason to think him winning is going to result in anything different than what we saw post Clinton and post Obama (and this pheonomena isn't exclusive to this country either as we've seen with the international wave of right wing populism).
    Basically I'm referencing the fact that D voters didn't vote because Bernie wasn't on the ticket... That CAN NOT happen in 2020.... We need every vote the D's can muster because the election will be decided in "Purple" states. Sure, in Illinois, it probably doesn't matter if I don't vote for _______ on the D ballot. But if people take that attitude in Florida or Pennsylvania or Wisconsin, we are doomed to more of the same **** 2016 got us...

    ANY D vote is better then no vote at all. And that's what people need to realize at this point...
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Why would you propose a leftist policy when you can make $700/hour consulting with corporations and insurance companies about how to get out of thorny bankruptcy problems while pretending to be a leftist?
    True. Also goes for political news coverage. "It's difficult for someone to understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it."
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    Basically I'm referencing the fact that D voters didn't vote because Bernie wasn't on the ticket... That CAN NOT happen in 2020.... We need every vote the D's can muster because the election will be decided in "Purple" states. Sure, in Illinois, it probably doesn't matter if I don't vote for _______ on the D ballot. But if people take that attitude in Florida or Pennsylvania or Wisconsin, we are doomed to more of the same **** 2016 got us...

    ANY D vote is better then no vote at all. And that's what people need to realize at this point...
    There were a LOT of reasons Hillary lost from voter suppression, what you mentioned RE Bernie voters, Comey, her not campaigning in WI, her health scare, 20+ years of right wing propaganda, and probably like ten other things. Blaming it solely on Bernie voters when Obama had historical turnout in 2008 despite a far greater number of Hillary voters doing what Bernie voters did in 2016, is probably lower on the list of reasons she lost than some of those other factors.

    Yes we need people in those states to vote blue no matter who even if it's some regressive like Biden because it's better than the alternative but even if that happens we're still likely ****ed in the long run as history has shown repeatedly. The problems this country faces aren't solely Trump related and as we discussed above the Supreme Court has been stacked with right wing loons. We need someone who will at the very least fight to fix that mess to get anything meaningful done and there are basically only 2 viable candidates who even want to do anything productive.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Guys, you're all missing something vital. In the rush to get to socialism or enshrine Obama-ism, none of this will occur without one thing which is the first priority. More so than throwing Chump in jail, or raising taxes to 200% on upper earners, or replacing Columbus Day with Lenin Day.

    This country, and in the process the Democrats, need to pass robust voting rights legislation for the 21st century. None of the Dems currently running, nor any of the Dems currently serving in the House or Senate, will vote against expanded voter rights. Outlaw all of the shenanigans with polling places, voter ID's, disenfranchisement, voter roll purges, etc and watch the GOP lose one of their main tools for holding onto power. When you realize that this is issue 1 and 1A, a Biden or Booker or Joe freakin' Manchin Presidency becomes a lot more welcome, because the fate of any great social legislation in the future depends on it. Keep your eyes on the prize, people.
    Yes, all of the left, the center-left, and the center-right with consciences (crickets) need to band together and restore democracy against the risible squealing of the right. And we should all support each other in doing this. The best way to do that is to energize the electorate and bring back those who have given up on government ever working for them again, at the same time giving the Republican moderates one helluva scare so they'll start peeling away from the fascists.

    In other words, from the left, not this:

    Last edited by Kepler; 05-23-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post


    They upheld Ohio purging the voter rolls...

    Sorry but if you're going to argue that the SC is going to somehow be impartial and not uphold challenges to HR1 or other progressive legislation if presented to them then lmao.
    Again, that's the point. The Ohio ruling was that you can't purge people for not voting (which is their right) but you can if there's a second criteria added, in that particular case not responding to several warnings that you were about to lose your registration.

    The feds have it in their power to update the law with whatever criteria needed to ensure people aren't needlessly purged from the rolls. They can also ban disproportionate access to polling places and a host of other things and there's no constitutional issue. They can also address disenfranchisement of ex-felons.

    I'm under no illusion about the SCOTUS and its makeup and have continually argued to add 2 more seats to restore its rightful balance after the stolen Garland seat. However, if Roberts were inclined to do so, there would be zero voting rights laws still in existence. If the GOP thought they could get that through the courts, they would be trying to. Clearly there's some level of rights that 5 justices will support. High time to test that out.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    Basically I'm referencing the fact that D voters didn't vote because Bernie wasn't on the ticket
    This would be a more compelling argument if it ever happened. The problem in 2016 was turd policy and a turd candidate. The Left did our job by holding our breath and supporting The Insiders. And Dump came along telling people he'd build a fire on the National Mall and immolate all the insiders and everybody loved it.

    Whoever we elect better be able to credibly say they're going to burn the ticks off the American scalp. That means bankers and oil men and militarists and Neocons and Nazi child murderers, as well as Dumpy and his crowd of cretinous criminals. We have always wondered why the people aren't angry. Now, when they're angry, our leaders just want to calm them down. You really have to wonder why, and who they're really protecting.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Again, that's the point. The Ohio ruling was that you can't purge people for not voting (which is their right) but you can if there's a second criteria added, in that particular case not responding to several warnings that you were about to lose your registration.

    The feds have it in their power to update the law with whatever criteria needed to ensure people aren't needlessly purged from the rolls. They can also ban disproportionate access to polling places and a host of other things and there's no constitutional issue. They can also address disenfranchisement of ex-felons.

    I'm under no illusion about the SCOTUS and its makeup and have continually argued to add 2 more seats to restore its rightful balance after the stolen Garland seat. However, if Roberts were inclined to do so, there would be zero voting rights laws still in existence. If the GOP thought they could get that through the courts, they would be trying to. Clearly there's some level of rights that 5 justices will support. High time to test that out.
    Well they've already gotten rid of the main enforcement apparatus of the VRA and while you might argue it isn't "needless" purging of the voter rolls, their sole intent is to disenfranchise voters and that was explicitly a challenge to the NVRA which was upheld. So yes, they've more or less shown that they are willing to uphold challenges to voting rights and ignore the constitution in those instances. Why exactly would HR1 be any different? Because they haven't invalidated every single word of the the other acts, just the important parts?

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Well they've already gotten rid of the main enforcement apparatus of the VRA and while you might argue it isn't "needless" purging of the voter rolls, their sole intent is to disenfranchise voters and that was explicitly a challenge to the NVRA which was upheld. So yes, they've more or less shown that they are willing to uphold challenges to voting rights and ignore the constitution in those instances. Why exactly would HR1 be any different? Because they haven't invalidated every single word of the the other acts, just the important parts?
    So trix, you DO realize that the part of the VRA that the Roberts court overturned had no effect on Ohio as it wasn't covered under the original pre-clearance map, right?
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    The Ohio challenge was a challenge to the motor voter act, and it was upheld. The 2013 challenge (Shelby v Holder) was challenging the voter rights act (or at least the enforcement apparatus), also upheld.

    And now you're arguing that the Supreme Court wouldn't likely uphold a challenge to HR1 because... ~reasons~
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 05-23-2019 at 03:53 PM.

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