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Thread: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

  1. #421
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    The problem is I dont think Biden inspires people to vote for him. I dont see him getting a groundswell of support nor do I see him taking up positions that will inspire anyone. He is an old White Guy running on Obama's name.

    If he wins he has my vote...but I would rather at least half the field win over him.
    I hear ya, but if people to the left of the cult aren't inspired to turn out next year by the thought of 4 more years of Prez Chump then they can take it in the shorts. That includes people like Slappy and his clueless relatives. I'm sorry but if the choice is between Biden and Nazi's I will enthusiastically vote for Uncle Joe even though he's probably my 3rd or 4th choice (Warren, Harris, etc). Not directed at you personally, but people need to put their big boy pants on in 2020 and save the country as we know it. If people don't understand the seriousness of the upcoming election they're too stupid to breathe.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    If Biden is the candidate we deserve 4 more years of Trump. Even if he did win history will probably repeat itself and we'll end up with a worse/smarter fascist who gets a super majority in 4-8 years.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    If Biden is the candidate we deserve 4 more years of Trump.
    No. We really don't. The Dumpies would deserve it but the other 65% of us can just go ahead, vote for Biden, and grin from ear to ear.

    Blue no matter who, all the way from dog catcher on to president. No R no matter how good, no third parties, nothing. If we don't like our choices we can run ourselves, or shut the f-ck up, because the line is all played out, now. In the last 25 years the GOP has used up every inch of the democratic slack this country built up over the prior 218 years.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-17-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    If Biden is the candidate we deserve 4 more years of Trump. Even if he did win history will probably repeat itself and we'll end up with a worse/smarter fascist who gets a super majority in 4-8 years.
    Seeing how only 2 Senate seats can **** us over in Minnesota I am hoping to just get a Democrat in there to stop the bleeding. Grand policy changes and ideas is what I want but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. They'll be nibbling at the edges. Some targeted immigration fixes maybe. Some targeted Obamacare fixes maybe. Higher taxes for the rich. But the REAL change that has been needed since Reagan took us down the sewer are going to be really difficult unless the Dems get full control.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    But the REAL change that has been needed since Reagan took us down the sewer are going to be really difficult unless the Dems get full control.
    And ironically the Dems won't get full control until they stand for those dramatic changes.

    The 65% sane in this country know we've lost our way and won't find our way back until we simply show the .01% and the Fundies the hand. "You cannot cross a chasm in small jumps."
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    No. We really don't. The Dumpies would deserve it but the other 65% of us can just go ahead, vote for Biden, and grin from ear to ear.

    Blue no matter who, all the way from dog catcher on to president. No R no matter how good, no third parties, nothing. If we don't like our choices we can run ourselves, or shut the f-ck up, because the line is all played out, now. In the last 25 years the GOP has used up every inch of the democratic slack this country built up over the prior 218 years.
    If people are gonna keep making the argument that anyone who voted Dumpy deserves everything that happens to them, the same logic applies to anyone who votes for Joe ****ing Biden in the primary.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Seeing how only 2 Senate seats can **** us over in Minnesota I am hoping to just get a Democrat in there to stop the bleeding. Grand policy changes and ideas is what I want but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. They'll be nibbling at the edges. Some targeted immigration fixes maybe. Some targeted Obamacare fixes maybe. Higher taxes for the rich. But the REAL change that has been needed since Reagan took us down the sewer are going to be really difficult unless the Dems get full control.
    That's assuming the senate gets flipped and Joe Biden wins after being both sides'd for months by Trump... I guess it could happen but I'm not holding my breath.

    If it comes down to it I'll vote for Biden just so RBG gets replaced by someone who isn't from the Heritage foundation but even that isn't exactly a compelling reason to vote for someone when the court is lost and is going to require packing to fix.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 05-17-2019 at 10:59 AM.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    If people are gonna keep making the argument that anyone who voted Dumpy deserves everything that happens to them, the same logic applies to anyone who votes for Joe ****ing Biden in the primary.
    That is, I'll put this charitably, incorrect.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    That is, I'll put this charitably, incorrect.
    It's not incorrect, he's easily one of the most vulnerable to Trump's bothsideisms and likely isn't going to turn out his base. Even if he does win you're likely looking at a Macron situation at best. None of this is any less foreseeable than Trump being a gigantic fascist racist grifter who walked back on all of his promises.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    It's not incorrect, he's easily one of the most vulnerable to Trump's bothsideisms and likely isn't going to turn out his base. Even if he does win you're likely looking at a Macron situation at best. None of this is any less foreseeable than Trump being a gigantic fascist racist grifter who walked back on all of his promises.
    trix you're a loon! You want a revolution but don't want to actually do the work! Look, whether Biden or Bernie is Prez, you will get jack sh it passed in terms of progressive legislation in the trix approved mold unless you pack Congress with like minded individuals. Bernie will not just wave a magic wand and bend people to his will. So, elect lefties to fill the halls of Congress, which takes time and effort, and you're good to go. Sit out an election because your candidate didn't win the nomination? Fuking stupid, and its like cutting off your balls to spite a woman who stood you up on a date. Someday I hope someone buys you that crowbar to get your head out your arse, but I'm not counting on it.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    I literally do volunteer work for a campaign so shove it with this garbage about "doing work" . If you really think voting for some garbage slightly less racist neolib (who gives paid speeches to help keep seats red in 2018) and blaming the electorate when they lose is "doing work" then that says everything.

    And yeah I realize that no matter who is in that seat it might not even matter. That's assuming the senate remains R, unless it's Trump again and the house goes his way somehow. Yes having a progressive president doesn't guarantee progressive legislation getting passed but at the very least you'll have someone saying the right things and actively working on building a global left political movement and (hopefully) fighting the good fight in terms of court packing. Ideally that creates the momentum to keep the house and maaaaaybe flip the senate.

    So, elect lefties to fill the halls of Congress, which takes time and effort, and you're good to go. Sit out an election because your candidate didn't win the nomination? Fuking stupid, and its like cutting off your balls to spite a woman who stood you up on a date. Someday I hope someone buys you that crowbar to get your head out your arse, but I'm not counting on it.
    Literally nowhere did I say I was going to do this so stop with this moronic lecturing. I already said I'd vote for Biden if it came to it but we can also be realistic about what the likely aftermath of that will be just like we can if Trump or anyone else wins.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 05-17-2019 at 11:41 AM.

  11. #431
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    The problem is I dont think Biden inspires people to vote for him. I dont see him getting a groundswell of support nor do I see him taking up positions that will inspire anyone. He is an old White Guy running on Obama's name.

    If he wins he has my vote...but I would rather at least half the field win over him.
    This precisely correct. Biden is a much older version of Nixon in 1960.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Rover, you're going to have to learn to disagree with allies without screaming "dracarys!" Particularly since you don't have a dragon, you have a dragonfly.

    trix, it's incorrect to equate Dems voting for their favorite with Dumpies voting for der Dopenführer. Plenty of people think Biden is the best bet to unseat the Cowardly Liar (including, FWIW, the Traitor-in-Chief itself).

    If a Losing Dem runs third party and people back him then yeah, I'll get the tar while you get the feathers. But otherwise none of us are precogs and none of us know whether our personal pet theories will have any validity next November. Now let's hug it out and go Injun-rename stuff to own the cons.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-17-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    trix, it's incorrect to equate Dems voting for their favorite with Dumpies voting for der Dopenführer. Plenty of people think Biden is the best bet to unseat the Cowardly Liar (including, FWIW, the Traitor-in-Chief itself).
    We can look at the history of neoliberal leaders and their reforms directly leading to fascism in a number of countries even in present time so while it isn't as bad as those directly supporting fascism, indirectly supporting it through silly notions of "electability" isn't much better. And that's assuming the guy even wins if he gets the nom which I'm skeptical of.

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    We can look at the history of neoliberal leaders and their reforms directly leading to fascism in a number of countries even in present time so while it isn't as bad as those directly supporting fascism, indirectly supporting it through silly notions of "electability" isn't much better. And that's assuming the guy even wins if he gets the nom which I'm skeptical of.
    For god's sake, man; I'm the Marxist*! I understand the normalization of neoliberal policy under bourgeois compromised "left" parties is the road to plutocratic hegemony.

    But I also know actual fascism, and I can tell a hawk from a handsaw.

    Obviously I want Liz in the White House and the editorial board of Jacobin as her cabinet, at a bare minimum. But I'll settle for not having a lunatic monster and his jackboot jackwagon party there.

    * via Marcuse, not Lenin. Don't get the vapors, boys.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    We can look at the history of neoliberal leaders and their reforms directly leading to fascism in a number of countries even in present time so while it isn't as bad as those directly supporting fascism, indirectly supporting it through silly notions of "electability" isn't much better. And that's assuming the guy even wins if he gets the nom which I'm skeptical of.
    Completely stupid take (sorry Kep, I gotta be me ). If we don't elect Sanders or a Sanders acolyte we're better off with Trump because a moderate Dem will lead to an even worse Nazi? I think you got ahold of some bad weed.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    sorry Kep, I gotta be me
    Well... same here, to be honest.

    We're old and inflexible. We're probably not going to be having much of an effect on the young and mentally agile members of the Cafe.
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    LMFAO, I'll take things nobody said for $500 Alex!

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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    On a scale of 1 (far right loonie) to 100 (left wing progressive loonie) rate the candidates.

    Michael Bennet
    Joe Biden
    Bill de Blasio
    Cory Booker
    Steve Bullock
    Pete Buttigieg
    Julián Castro
    John Delaney
    Tulsi Gabbard
    Kirsten Gillibrand
    Mike Gravel
    Kamala Harris
    John Hickenlooper
    Jay Inslee
    Amy Klobuchar
    Wayne Messam
    Seth Moulton
    Beto O'Rourke
    Tim Ryan
    Bernie Sanders
    Eric Swalwell
    Elizabeth Warren
    Marianne Williamson
    Andrew Yang

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    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    LMFAO, I'll take things nobody said for $500 Alex!
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    Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    On a scale of 1 (far right loonie) to 100 (left wing progressive loonie) rate the candidates.

    Michael Bennet
    Steve Bullock
    Wayne Messam
    Marianne Williamson
    You made these names up, didn't you?
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