The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

[mookie1995]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Just thought of something. Didn't Loki disappear with a stone when the Avengers went back in time and wasn't it one of the five they needed to pull the whole end result off?

to fix that cap and im went back to an earlier period when they knew they could find it at the nj army base.

[Kepler]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

to fix that cap and im went back to an earlier period when they knew they could find it at the nj army base.

So Cap could see his age inappropriate squeeze.

[mookie1995]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

So Cap could see his age inappropriate squeeze.

guessing he dropped that one off last

[Slap Shot]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

to fix that cap and im went back to an earlier period when they knew they could find it at the nj army base.

Oh yeah.

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Also, Loki making off with the Tesseract allows a pretty notable point for non comic book people to see where an alternative dimension/timeline stems from. Probably will be the first of many coming forward given the clues Marvel has dropped thus far.

[bostonewe]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Also, Loki making off with the Tesseract allows a pretty notable point for non comic book people to see where an alternative dimension/timeline stems from. Probably will be the first of many coming forward given the clues Marvel has dropped thus far.

Makes sense. I believe Disney is planning a Tom Hiddleston Loki series on their Disney + streaming service.

[St. Clown]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Makes sense. I believe Disney is planning a Tom Hiddleston Loki series on their Disney + streaming service.

Yes, they are. They're trying to lure in a lot of people with exclusive content from Star Wars and Marvel, along with some kids stuff, too.

[ticapnews]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

The Joker spoilers:

What's most disturbing about this story is how easy it is to imagine so many of our fellow citizens following this spiral to the depths of insanity. We can all identify with being picked on at work. Who can't sympathize with a guy getting attacked and beaten up by a bunch of bullies? The horrendous betrayal by his mother. And what the hell was that Johnny Carson wannabe even thinking airing that clip? Too many Incels are going to see that imagined relationship with his neighbor and think this movie speaks directly to them. On the other hand, killing Wall Street bankers isn't their M.O. Income inequality, the separation between all of 'us' and the Elite and a distaste for gun violence is - politically - a totally different message. But they are all linked.

Joaquin Phoenix delivered a captivating performance. As uncomfortable as you may be watching this, it's impossible to look away. It's like approaching a wreck on the highway. You don't want to look. You know it's going to be gruesome. You know it'll be better not to see it. But you're going to look anyway.

The execution of Robert DeNiro's character was shocking. The earlier killings were telegraphed, but there was no warning for what happened on that stage. It was set up that Joker was going to take his own life, not shoot a man in the head on live TV.

I would have been fine without the Batman origin story. The Thomas Wayne stuff was necessary. Slowly that plot line revealed the horrifying truth of his mother's lies and her criminal insanity. It partially explained Arthur's own mental problems. The ultimate demise of Thomas and Martha Wayne in front of their son is a compelling story but it wasn't needed here. It served as a distraction from the much more interesting character study of one Arthur Fleck.

[ticapnews]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Now that I've slept on it my opinion hasn't changed much. I'm still not sure if I want to see this again. When I watch something like Schindler's List there are parts I skip because they're too heartbreaking to see but I love the overall story: A pro-Nazi war profiteer becomes a savior to over 1000 people. This story has no such redemptive arc. Even in the final frames of the film Joker is still killing people.

The larger question for society that I've seen debated far and wide is how people will react to this movie. In particular, how will people with different political viewpoints see this.

The Left: Joker portrays an Incel as sympathetic. Sorry, but that's what he is. A single, white, under-employed man who lives with his mother; fantasizes about killing people and imagines himself some great Romeo. Sound familiar? It should.
The Right: Joker glorifies violence against the wealthy and exaggerates the class divide. The Hollywood Elite should stick to stories about heroes and leave the fake social commentary to the braindead talking heads on cable news.

The reality is that they're both right. And both wrong. Yes, we can sympathize with Arthur Fleck. Manipulated and betrayed by his mother, beaten by bullies, ignored by strangers and just treated like trash by...everybody. Admit it. When he shot those Wall Street brokers it felt good. They deserved it. They were going to assault that woman until they were distracted by his laugh and she escaped. They ridiculed him. They beat him and might have left him for dead until he flipped and started shooting them. And that felt good. It felt like justice. Let's be real, if we were in a court of law, who would believe three rich upstanding citizens were beating him up after almost raping a woman? No one. We know it wouldn't happen. So when he shoots them it was karma. They got what was coming to them. The movie has successfully manipulated you to the point you are cheering for the bad guy. And that is where many people will check out. They won't be able to accept it. We've cheered for the villain before, but there was a side to Tony Soprano and Walter White and Cersei Lannister that made them someone we could respect, even admire; even if what they did turned our stomachs. There is no redeeming quality to Arthur Fleck. He smothers his hospitalized mother, he imagines a relationship with a neighbor, he kills a co-worker. He has no admirable qualities.

What I hope we can do is turn this disturbing film into an opportunity to have a discussion. Yes, this is dark. Yes, this is disturbing. This is also an accurate depiction of our society. We have Incels walking around with guns. There is a divide between the wealthy and the rest of 'us.' Should we as a society pay for services like the doctor Arthur Fleck sees or not? And what are the repercussions? We should embrace this as a chance to further the debate. I doubt that will happen. It's too uncomfortable, too difficult. Easier to just dismiss this as dangerous fantasy or the work of the liberal Hollywood Elite and move on to the next story.

[Handyman]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

I'm sorry but the Incel stuff is rather disingenuous. Joker is hardly the first character to be crazy and live at home with Mom. By that definition Norman Bates is an Incel. The trope predates the modern society(Law and Order used it a ton in the last 30 years) and I find it kind of pathetic The Left is using it as an excuse to **** on the film. Arthur may fit the definition of what an Incel is but so do evil people in films going back decades and the same reviewers love those films.

The Right can **** off too. Their complaints are hollow to me. It isn't like that wasn't the perfect pastiche of New York in 1981. Truth hurts...EAT THE RICH!

I liked seeing the Batman origin only cause it showed that the fall of Gotham spawned both disease AND the cure. Batman and Joker are both caused by Gotham.

And yes the killing of the D-bags felt like justice...until the last one where he hunted him.

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Saw it this morning....

I won't delve into all the "what it means" stuff, I saw it simply for the character study. Some of this will be repeated in my official review in the Movies thread.

What we saw was not a slow breakdown of a human. We saw a complete collapse, brick by brick, in a meticulous manner. The movie could have ended at 3 different points, ALL would have been quality endings.
1. Cut to black, one last laugh heard.
2. "...but you wouldn't get it." cut to black. (JESUS!)
3. The actual ending, which REALLY made you cock your head and mutter ".................the fcuk..........................."

As the movie progressed, I found myself agreeing with some of you in thinking "I don't really want to see this again" but when it ended, not only will I need to see this movie again, I will buy this movie when it comes out. It's that good, IMO.

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Saw the film earlier today. The ONE thing that keeps popping into my head is the Batman "origin" scene. Seriously, just cut Thomas, Martha, and Bruce leaving the theatre and heading into that dark alley, and this film is perfect. That scene took me out of the film for the moment and I'm not happy about it. It was not needed at all.

We all know that the unrest in Gotham would create Batman eventually. It didn't need to be tied into this story at all. I really wonder if Warner told Todd Phillips that he needed to have something tying this to the larger world of Batman. I just don't see how it fits the narrative that the film presents.

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Saw the film earlier today. The ONE thing that keeps popping into my head is the Batman "origin" scene. Seriously, just cut Thomas, Martha, and Bruce leaving the theatre and heading into that dark alley, and this film is perfect. That scene took me out of the film for the moment and I'm not happy about it. It was not needed at all.

We all know that the unrest in Gotham would create Batman eventually. It didn't need to be tied into this story at all. I really wonder if Warner told Todd Phillips that he needed to have something tying this to the larger world of Batman. I just don't see how it fits the narrative that the film presents.

I can see that about the alley scene, given Arthur's visit to Wayne Manor in a previous scene.

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

I can see that about the alley scene, given Arthur's visit to Wayne Manor in a previous scene.

I had no problem with Arthur visiting Wayne Manor earlier in the film. It fits his narrative (he truly believed that he was Thomas Wayne's son at the time). It was a key moment, eventually leading to Arthur finding out he was adopted and abused by his mother. It was part of the "brick by brick" dismantling of Arthur's mental state.

That part stands on it's own. Getting to see Batman's parents shot (again ) did nothing for the larger narrative.

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

I had no problem with Arthur visiting Wayne Manor earlier in the film. It fits his narrative (he truly believed that he was Thomas Wayne's son at the time). It was a key moment, eventually leading to Arthur finding out he was adopted and abused by his mother. It was part of the "brick by brick" dismantling of Arthur's mental state.

That part stands on it's own. Getting to see Batman's parents shot (again ) did nothing for the larger narrative.

Exactly. The visit pretty much explains the alley. The actual alley scenes were not really needed, to your point.