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Thread: Sunyac

  1. #1
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    Sunyac

    Not trying to throw hate at any individual team in asking this. But Iím just genuinely curious why the SUNYAC, while a strong and competitive conference, pretty much ends the same every season. Geneseo, Oswego, and Plattsburgh battle it out for the top 3 spots, while Fredonia Brockport, and Buffalo seem to be in a second tier, followed by Potsdam, Cortland, and Morrisville in the lower third tier, with Cortland and Morrisville routinely missing playoffs. Why canít Potsdam break through to be a top tier program with their new rink? Why does Geneseo do so much better than Cortland or Brockport when they basically have the exact same rinks to show recruits? Is it recruiting? Coaching? Facilities? Geographic location? History? School reputation? I would love any input here. My cousin played at Fredonia in the early 2000ís and said that the tiered system I mentioned earlier was pretty much the same 20 years ago. What keeps these teams from improving? Again, I love the SUNYAC conference. Just curious about the programs. Also, why not let Canton in as an affiliate member? I think they will soon pass Morrisville and Cortland in terms of team strength. They also have a beautiful new facility. They canít be independent forever.
    Last edited by Keith-Stone; 04-22-2019 at 07:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Oswego State Great Laker
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    Re: Sunyac

    You've covered an awful lot ground here amigo, small bites. If you pull for a particular SUNYAC program visit the school pages, Twitter, etc, pay attention and visit this board often.
    This conference is really no different that any other; the haves and have nots. For every Alabama there's a Vanderbilt. Same logic applies here. If you follow a particular school closely you know which sports they are invested in.
    It's off season so now the talk will be about recruits. I myself look for which players are returning, how many are graduating, and the transfer wire. There is a ton of history on the team pages/sunyac page to refer to that might answer some the questions you have as to 'why'. BTW love Canton and what they did this year. That being said, GO LAKERS.

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    Re: Sunyac

    Are there any non-elitist arguments against Canton joining the league? Geography is the only one I can think of but the schools could make it work. Canton would actually be an ideal travel partner for Potsdam, but then that leaves Plattsburgh without one.

    Fredonia-Buff State
    Geneseo-Brockport
    Morrisville-Cortland
    Potsdam-Canton

    That would leave Oswego and Plattsburgh without partners. Maybe they could be paired together
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightsOfTheRound View Post
    Are there any non-elitist arguments against Canton joining the league? Geography is the only one I can think of but the schools could make it work. Canton would actually be an ideal travel partner for Potsdam, but then that leaves Plattsburgh without one.

    Fredonia-Buff State
    Geneseo-Brockport
    Morrisville-Cortland
    Potsdam-Canton

    That would leave Oswego and Plattsburgh without partners. Maybe they could be paired together
    The proposal hockey coaches were talking about when Cantonís application was being considered was Plattsburgh-Potsdam, Oswego-Canton.

    In terms of why they werenít accepted, the key words were ďAcademic Profile.Ē The SUNYAC members are all four-year liberal arts colleges. Canton is a former two-year school with a heavy tech focus, and more than half of their courses of study are still Associates Degree programs.

    As to whether that should have anything to do with their membership in the SUNYAC... I suppose youíd have to ask the MIAC about how enrollment and academic profile comes into the discussion, when they vote next month on a proposal to kick St Thomas out because theyíre too big.

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    Re: Sunyac

    With Morrisville and you pair the Wallabies with the Ponies. Not ideal, but there are worse in other conferences (Hamilton - Amherst comes to mind).
    Last edited by joecct; 04-25-2019 at 08:48 AM.

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    Re: Sunyac

    Morrisville-Canton probably makes the most sense since it doesn't disrupt the status quo. It's a tough trip but doable once a year.
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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post
    The proposal hockey coaches were talking about when Canton’s application was being considered was Plattsburgh-Potsdam, Oswego-Canton.
    Correct. And Cortland-Morrisville.

    It's really the only way it works without leaving Plattsburgh out on an island.
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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post
    In terms of why they weren’t accepted, the key words were “Academic Profile.” The SUNYAC members are all four-year liberal arts colleges. Canton is a former two-year school with a heavy tech focus, and more than half of their courses of study are still Associates Degree programs.
    But isn't their academic profile similar to Morrisville? What distinguishes Canton from the 'lil Ponies" ?
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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    But isn't their academic profile similar to Morrisville? What distinguishes Canton from the 'lil Ponies" ?
    A question I myself have asked often.

    I think the difference is Canton still offers two-year degrees, while the other two to four year schools (Morrisville, SUNYIT (now SUNY Poly), Farmingdale) no longer do. However, I was told they don't "really" anymore, and thus the issue is no more. I have also been told the Presidents of the schools most against Canton joining are no longer against it. Then again, I've been told they still are. You can never get a straight answer...
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    But isn't their academic profile similar to Morrisville? What distinguishes Canton from the 'lil Ponies" ?
    Does Canton have a cow barn right next to the rink?

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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Does Canton have a cow barn right next to the rink?
    Potsdam had a cow farm across the street from Maxcy Hall. If the wind was blowing the wrong way....

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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Does Canton have a cow barn right next to the rink?
    Kangaroos and cows........quite the turnaround regardless 14-9-2 from 7-16-2 the prior year
    Last edited by OZFEST; 04-26-2019 at 05:14 AM.

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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by OZFEST View Post
    Kangaroos and cows........quite the turnaround regardless 14-9-2 from 7-16-2 the prior year
    They seem like a program on the up and up. Seem like they would be a great fit for the 'YAC
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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Does Canton have a cow barn right next to the rink?
    Hell, Penn State has a cow barn right near campus... helps feed the best on-campus ice creamery in the United States (where Ben & Jerry learned to make ice cream)!
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    Quote Originally Posted by spwood View Post
    Hell, Penn State has a cow barn right near campus... helps feed the best on-campus ice creamery in the United States (where Ben & Jerry learned to make ice cream)!
    Is the nuclear reactor still there, too?

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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Is the nuclear reactor still there, too?
    What do you think powers the ice cream plant?
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    Re: Sunyac

    I'd agree with the comment following this post that it happens with every conference in any sport at any division - There will always be bottom dwellers.

    But I'd say while it was a Plattsburgh/Oswego-dominated conference throughout the 00's, Geneseo started making it a three-horse race around 2014 once they made the FF. (Plattsburgh has dipped recently after their remarkable title run in 16-17 but we'll see how they transition under a new coach, they're only 26-24-3 in the last two years)

    I'd say the culture around these programs is the most important. Plattsburgh and Oswego have had historic programs for decades, and (Being an Oswego alum) when talking to the players they always mentioned the history and the attendance. Most of these kids in juniors don't even know about these schools or couldn't even point them out on a map, but when they see the history on a recruiting trip and see 2,500+ fans in a small town come out to a hockey game, they get sold on it.

    Buffalo State made some noise for a small stretch when they had DeLavergne in net, and Fredonia made a nice run in 17-18 to the SUNYAC championship, but i can't imagine how tough it is to get a program to completely turn around.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keith-Stone View Post
    Not trying to throw hate at any individual team in asking this. But Iím just genuinely curious why the SUNYAC, while a strong and competitive conference, pretty much ends the same every season. Geneseo, Oswego, and Plattsburgh battle it out for the top 3 spots, while Fredonia Brockport, and Buffalo seem to be in a second tier, followed by Potsdam, Cortland, and Morrisville in the lower third tier, with Cortland and Morrisville routinely missing playoffs. Why canít Potsdam break through to be a top tier program with their new rink? Why does Geneseo do so much better than Cortland or Brockport when they basically have the exact same rinks to show recruits? Is it recruiting? Coaching? Facilities? Geographic location? History? School reputation? I would love any input here. My cousin played at Fredonia in the early 2000ís and said that the tiered system I mentioned earlier was pretty much the same 20 years ago. What keeps these teams from improving? Again, I love the SUNYAC conference. Just curious about the programs. Also, why not let Canton in as an affiliate member? I think they will soon pass Morrisville and Cortland in terms of team strength. They also have a beautiful new facility. They canít be independent forever.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKrosky View Post
    I'd agree with the comment following this post that it happens with every conference in any sport at any division - There will always be bottom dwellers.

    But I'd say while it was a Plattsburgh/Oswego-dominated conference throughout the 00's, Geneseo started making it a three-horse race around 2014 once they made the FF. (Plattsburgh has dipped recently after their remarkable title run in 16-17 but we'll see how they transition under a new coach, they're only 26-24-3 in the last two years)

    I'd say the culture around these programs is the most important. Plattsburgh and Oswego have had historic programs for decades, and (Being an Oswego alum) when talking to the players they always mentioned the history and the attendance. Most of these kids in juniors don't even know about these schools or couldn't even point them out on a map, but when they see the history on a recruiting trip and see 2,500+ fans in a small town come out to a hockey game, they get sold on it.

    Buffalo State made some noise for a small stretch when they had DeLavergne in net, and Fredonia made a nice run in 17-18 to the SUNYAC championship, but i can't imagine how tough it is to get a program to completely turn around.
    Geneseo also had back to back SUNYAC titles in 2004 and 2005 or 2005 and 2006 I believe. Ever since Schultz has taken over, heís really elevated the Geneseo program from usually the 3rd or so place team in the conference to a SUNYAC title contender every year and right in the national picture every year since 2014 like you said.

  19. #19
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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
    Geneseo also had back to back SUNYAC titles in 2004 and 2005 or 2005 and 2006 I believe. Ever since Schultz has taken over, he’s really elevated the Geneseo program from usually the 3rd or so place team in the conference to a SUNYAC title contender every year and right in the national picture every year since 2014 like you said.
    Coach Schultz deserves all the credit in the world for creating a winning culture and tradition for Geneseo hockey. He has to be considered in the top tier of coaches for Division III hockey nationally.

    I am too far from Geneseo these days to know what's going on there -- following hockey is about the only way I relate to my alma mater these days -- but something has changed in the past few years. If you look at the SUNYAC Commissioner's Cup history, it was won by Cortland every year until 2014, and since then Geneseo has won it every year. So there has been an increased commitment to athletics across the department. Geneseo is now also near the top of the rankings for Division III across all sports nationally, which is much different than a decade ago when I attended.

    https://www.sunyacsports.com/awards-c...ners-cup/index
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    Re: Sunyac

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightsOfTheRound View Post
    Coach Schultz deserves all the credit in the world for creating a winning culture and tradition for Geneseo hockey. He has to be considered in the top tier of coaches for Division III hockey nationally.

    I am too far from Geneseo these days to know what's going on there -- following hockey is about the only way I relate to my alma mater these days -- but something has changed in the past few years. If you look at the SUNYAC Commissioner's Cup history, it was won by Cortland every year until 2014, and since then Geneseo has won it every year. So there has been an increased commitment to athletics across the department. Geneseo is now also near the top of the rankings for Division III across all sports nationally, which is much different than a decade ago when I attended.

    https://www.sunyacsports.com/awards-c...ners-cup/index
    Geneseo has ALWAYS had a very strong running program. They have greatly benefited from Cortland falling back a bit in running and it helps sweeping men's and women's XC, men's and women's indoor, as well as men's and women's outdoor track every year. That's 30 points for both men and women and dominant start to the Commissioners cup.
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