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Thread: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    https://politicalwire.com/2019/05/01...ort-summaries/

    I don't think turning Mueller into a bad guy here is either right or wise. He's managed to stay above the fray and do his investigation without any leaks which is just about unprecedented. We need 1) the full report, not the one selectively edited by Chump's toady, and 2) Mueller to testify openly before the House Judiciary Committee. Then we can start drawing better conclusions.
    So he did his job without any leaks.... but now it is time for leaks?!?

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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by mookie1995 View Post
    So he did his job without any leaks.... but now it is time for leaks?!?

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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Agree. From what I've read, he's old school. His job isn't to make political decisions or opinions. His job is to do what his superiors task him, investigate, and report. And everything has to go through the proper channels.
    And I am not asking him to make a political decision. I didnt say he should be pushing for impeachment and I am fine with what he concluded. That isnt what this is about.

    His words were made political by someone else, and whats worse is they were twisted and misused to exonerate the very person he was investigating. (which goes against the findings of Mueller himself) I dont know about you but if I am doing my best to stay out of it and someone pulls me in and lies about what my conclusions are for days/weeks on end I do more than write them a letter saying "you stop now or else!" If he cared about his integrity so much he would have denounced what Barr said the next day after Barr held his PC. But no he stood there flaccid...didnt have the stones to say the truth and challenge the lies even as they spread like wildfire.

    This isnt about impeachment, this is about him supposedly trying to "stay out of the fray" but not stopping others from doing it for him. You want to punt on the questions to other jurisdictions fine. I trust them to do what is right more than I trust Congress. But you literally wrote "this does not exonerate Trump" in the report and Barr is saying you said otherwise and you sit back and do nothing? That doesnt sound like a Prosecutor to me that sounds like a Democrat.
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    https://politicalwire.com/2019/05/01...ort-summaries/

    I don't think turning Mueller into a bad guy here is either right or wise. He's managed to stay above the fray and do his investigation without any leaks which is just about unprecedented. We need 1) the full report, not the one selectively edited by Chump's toady, and 2) Mueller to testify openly before the House Judiciary Committee. Then we can start drawing better conclusions.
    I dont think he is a bad guy...I think he is weak. I think he (most likely) did a great job with the investigation. I think, much like Comey and Rosenstein he is out of his element dealing with the fallout from the actions they take because they think most people have a sense of honor and duty. They do things the right way assuming that will lead to the right conclusions and reactions. They especially feel that way about the GOP because they themselves are Republicans. (well Comey left but he was) They failed to realize that there is no honor in the GOP these days, and by the time they realize it is way too late. They may want to be A-Political in the sense of their actions, but they allow themselves to become pawns in the political game and dont have the guts to fight it until the damage has been done.

    Now if Mueller becomes the next Comey who basically has spent the last 2 years on an Anti-Trump tour I might think differently. I dont see that happening though.
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    And I am not asking him to make a political decision. I didnt say he should be pushing for impeachment and I am fine with what he concluded. That isnt what this is about.

    His words were made political by someone else, and whats worse is they were twisted and misused to exonerate the very person he was investigating. (which goes against the findings of Mueller himself) I dont know about you but if I am doing my best to stay out of it and someone pulls me in and lies about what my conclusions are for days/weeks on end I do more than write them a letter saying "you stop now or else!" If he cared about his integrity so much he would have denounced what Barr said the next day after Barr held his PC. But no he stood there flaccid...didnt have the stones to say the truth and challenge the lies even as they spread like wildfire.

    This isnt about impeachment, this is about him supposedly trying to "stay out of the fray" but not stopping others from doing it for him. You want to punt on the questions to other jurisdictions fine. I trust them to do what is right more than I trust Congress. But you literally wrote "this does not exonerate Trump" in the report and Barr is saying you said otherwise and you sit back and do nothing? That doesnt sound like a Prosecutor to me that sounds like a Democrat.
    You might not be wrong, but I personally am not willing to judge too harshly a guy who conducted a massive investigation into possible crimes committed by members of his own political party, suffered silently as the President of the United States (who claims to be a member of said party) called him a traitor for conducting the investigation, because he spent a couple of weeks at the end of a multiyear investigation working up the courage (or whatever he was working up) to call out the Attorney General for lying about his findings. (Christ on a cracker. That is probably the most poorly-written sentence I've ever perpetrated on humans. Sorry 'bout that.)

    Mueller's work was the investigation and its report. He did the work. As we've seen, finding a Republican who will speak up against this administration is not easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    I dont think he is a bad guy...I think he is weak. I think he (most likely) did a great job with the investigation. I think, much like Comey and Rosenstein he is out of his element dealing with the fallout from the actions they take because they think most people have a sense of honor and duty. They do things the right way assuming that will lead to the right conclusions and reactions. They especially feel that way about the GOP because they themselves are Republicans. (well Comey left but he was) They failed to realize that there is no honor in the GOP these days, and by the time they realize it is way too late. They may want to be A-Political in the sense of their actions, but they allow themselves to become pawns in the political game and dont have the guts to fight it until the damage has been done.

    Now if Mueller becomes the next Comey who basically has spent the last 2 years on an Anti-Trump tour I might think differently. I dont see that happening though.
    So mueller David chased it

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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Yeah if Mueller actually cared he would comment publicly. Sorry but that rings about as hollow as a Susan Collins assurance. Mueller seems more and more spineless by the day IMHO.
    Alternative explanation: Mueller views process as more important than result because violation of process means all future process, and thus results, are at risk.

    He does not view himself as a political actor; he views himself as an institutional functionary. His personal opinions are left at the door when he goes to work.

    This is precisely what we are supposed to ask of all our state actors: cops, judges, soldiers. When you get state actors who discard their impartiality because they think "this time it's really important," you get Katherine Harris.
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    If you want Chump and crew held accountable for their crimes, it isn't Mueller's job to do so. Simply put, you need to 1) vote Chump and the Nazi cult out of office in 2020 (doable) and then 2) refer his crimes based on Mueller's investigation to the proper authorities. If that includes people like Barr in the cover up so be it. Chump is making a cynical but reasoned guess that if he runs out the clock on his first term, even if he ends up losing there will be no political appetite from the Dems in power to re-investigate his Presidency. If he wins he'll consider that justification for shutting down any investigations and pardoning anybody who could do him damage. I personally would prefer an airtight investigation and the authorities waiting to lead him away in handcuffs the minute he (hopefully) hands over power in Jan of 2021.
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    I dont think he is a bad guy...I think he is weak. I think he (most likely) did a great job with the investigation. I think, much like Comey and Rosenstein he is out of his element dealing with the fallout from the actions they take because they think most people have a sense of honor and duty. They do things the right way assuming that will lead to the right conclusions and reactions. They especially feel that way about the GOP because they themselves are Republicans. (well Comey left but he was) They failed to realize that there is no honor in the GOP these days, and by the time they realize it is way too late. They may want to be A-Political in the sense of their actions, but they allow themselves to become pawns in the political game and dont have the guts to fight it until the damage has been done.

    Now if Mueller becomes the next Comey who basically has spent the last 2 years on an Anti-Trump tour I might think differently. I dont see that happening though.
    That's not weakness, that's being a good lawman. What Comey has done as a private citizen, lashing out at Droolius Caesar for firing him over patently political reasons, is his own business. Mueller was conducting an independent investigation, and has to maintain that air of impartiality (even if Dumpies think he's a "Deep Stater" regardless).
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Alternative explanation: Mueller views process as more important than result because violation of process means all future process, and thus results, are at risk.

    He does not view himself as a political actor; he views himself as an institutional functionary. His personal opinions are left at the door when he goes to work.

    This is precisely what we are supposed to ask of all our state actors: cops, judges, soldiers. When you get state actors who discard their impartiality because they think "this time it's really important," you get Katherine Harris.
    This is correct. He is the perfect embodiment of what we want our public servants to be. The man should be held up as the gold standard.
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    "Most transparent administration evah!"


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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Alternative explanation: Mueller views process as more important than result because violation of process means all future process, and thus results, are at risk.

    He does not view himself as a political actor; he views himself as an institutional functionary. His personal opinions are left at the door when he goes to work.

    This is precisely what we are supposed to ask of all our state actors: cops, judges, soldiers. When you get state actors who discard their impartiality because they think "this time it's really important," you get Katherine Harris.
    This. He realizes that if at all looks like he is doing anything for personal or political, rather than professional, reasons than that's risks putting the whole investigation at risk. And yes, I realize that those opposed are going to try to discredit it regardless, but he personally cannot risk giving them a wide opening to do so.

    He went through the proper channels and conducted the investigation. Some a-hole purposely mis-summarized it. He wrote a letter objecting (right after the summary came out) so that it was on record in an official manner. Now we know about it. Now it's up to Congress and those who can act to put 2 and 2 together and do so.

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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    For the record, here's the letter: https://twitter.com/HouseJudiciary/s...84968960172033

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    KDR

    Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
    iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    https://politicalwire.com/2019/05/01...ort-summaries/

    I don't think turning Mueller into a bad guy here is either right or wise. He's managed to stay above the fray and do his investigation without any leaks which is just about unprecedented. We need 1) the full report, not the one selectively edited by Chump's toady, and 2) Mueller to testify openly before the House Judiciary Committee. Then we can start drawing better conclusions.
    Wow, I agree with Rover. No need to demonize the man cause he didn't come back with the result you wanted. Well, basically he did, but its not his place or authority to pass that judgement.

    In this day and age, with politicians casually overstepping their authority, or being in others' pockets, or using their positions to enrich themselves and their friends, that should be a refreshing approach.

    That our political authorities, whose place and authority it is to make that judgement, won't, because they're either totally spineless or totally corrupt, isn't on Mueller, and he shouldn't be marred with that. Save your ire for those who deserve it, and can make a judgement in this matter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    If you want Chump and crew held accountable for their crimes, it isn't Mueller's job to do so. Simply put, you need to 1) vote Chump and the Nazi cult out of office in 2020 (doable) and then 2) refer his crimes based on Mueller's investigation to the proper authorities. If that includes people like Barr in the cover up so be it. Chump is making a cynical but reasoned guess that if he runs out the clock on his first term, even if he ends up losing there will be no political appetite from the Dems in power to re-investigate his Presidency. If he wins he'll consider that justification for shutting down any investigations and pardoning anybody who could do him damage. I personally would prefer an airtight investigation and the authorities waiting to lead him away in handcuffs the minute he (hopefully) hands over power in Jan of 2021.
    You realize if Dems had not taken the House in the midterms, we would have never seen the Mueller Report.

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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    If you want Chump and crew held accountable for their crimes, it isn't Mueller's job to do so. Simply put, you need to 1) vote Chump and the Nazi cult out of office in 2020 (doable) and then 2) refer his crimes based on Mueller's investigation to the proper authorities. If that includes people like Barr in the cover up so be it. Chump is making a cynical but reasoned guess that if he runs out the clock on his first term, even if he ends up losing there will be no political appetite from the Dems in power to re-investigate his Presidency. If he wins he'll consider that justification for shutting down any investigations and pardoning anybody who could do him damage. I personally would prefer an airtight investigation and the authorities waiting to lead him away in handcuffs the minute he (hopefully) hands over power in Jan of 2021.
    Holy sh-t! You are exactly right. How'd that happen?!
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Barr: "I don't know."

    This is basically his answer to every other question so far.
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    Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Barr: "I don't know."

    This is basically his answer to every other question so far.
    It's one step above "I don't recall" on the "I'm perjuring myself, we both know it, and there's nothing you can do about it" hit parade.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    It's one step above "I don't recall" on the "I'm perjuring myself, we both know it, and there's nothing you can do about it" hit parade.
    If only Hillary has done that. Shame only one party acts like adults

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