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Thread: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    This is the real first round. The rest is qualifying for amateur clubs, of which 8 qualify for this round along with 14 NPSL, 10 USL2, 6 USL1 teams to get here. Anyone under the "Local Qualifiers" has the chance to be a cinderella. 5 of them one their 1st round match.
    But it's not a real "open" where, far enough in advance, no matter who you are, if you keep winning you keep advancing. There are only 60-or-something slots and they're divied up and assigned.

    I was thinking this was like the FA Cup, where nearly a thousand clubs compete (scaling for the US that would be over 10,000). That would be cool. 15 rounds would be 32k teams. That should cover every adult soccer team in the US and let the guys from the local bar beat the Timbers on penalties.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-09-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    But it's not a real "open" where, far enough in advance, no matter who you are, if you keep winning you keep advancing. There are only 60-or-something slots and they're divied up and assigned.

    I was thinking this was like the FA Cup, where nearly a thousand clubs compete (scaling for the US that would be over 10,000). That would be cool. 15 rounds would be 32k teams. That should cover every adult soccer team in the US and let the guys from the local bar beat the Timbers on penalties.
    The FA Cup has qualifying rounds too ya know.

    Any registered club in the US can enter and go through the qualifying process.

    Edit: the FA Cup has only 32 non-League clubs in the proper tournament. Only 736 teams entered.
    Last edited by Jimjamesak; 05-09-2019 at 02:37 PM.

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    But it's not a real "open" where, far enough in advance, no matter who you are, if you keep winning you keep advancing. There are only 60-or-something slots and they're divied up and assigned.

    I was thinking this was like the FA Cup, where nearly a thousand clubs compete (scaling for the US that would be over 10,000). That would be cool. 15 rounds would be 32k teams. That should cover every adult soccer team in the US and let the guys from the local bar beat the Timbers on penalties.
    The 14 spots for NPSL came from the 94 teams in that league
    The 10 spots from USL2 came from the 72 teams in that league (67 are potentially eligible, 5 are Canadian)
    The 5 spots from USL1 came from the 10 teams in that league (9 are potentially eligible, 1 is Canadian)
    The 25 spots from USLC came from the 32 teams in that league (35 are potentially eligible, 1 is Canadian)
    The 8 Local Qualifier spots included the 2018 National Amateur Champion (Milwaukee) and 7 local qualifiers from four regions including 94 teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    The 14 spots for NPSL came from the 94 teams in that league
    The 10 spots from USL2 came from the 72 teams in that league (67 are potentially eligible, 5 are Canadian)
    The 5 spots from USL1 came from the 10 teams in that league (9 are potentially eligible, 1 is Canadian)
    The 25 spots from USLC came from the 32 teams in that league (35 are potentially eligible, 1 is Canadian)
    The 8 Local Qualifier spots included the 2018 National Amateur Champion (Milwaukee) and 7 local qualifiers from four regions including 94 teams.
    One note, lower league clubs that are affiliated with a higher league club are not allowed to enter the Open Cup, thatís why three teams in USL-1 didnít enter (Orlando B, North Texas, and FC Tucson) and bunch in USL-Championship.

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    One note, lower league clubs that are affiliated with a higher league club are not allowed to enter the Open Cup, thatís why three teams in USL-1 didnít enter (Orlando B, North Texas, and FC Tucson) and bunch in USL-Championship.
    what is the distinction between North Texas and Madison?
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits...Posted by Yager on 12/18/09: Remember, remember, the 18th of October (2003).

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Congratulations to the World Cup champion Boston Red Sox!
    according to the White House

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    what is the distinction between North Texas and Madison?
    Ownership. North Texas is owned and operated by FC Dallas, Madison has a different ownership.

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    The FA Cup has qualifying rounds too ya know.

    Any registered club in the US can enter and go through the qualifying process.

    Edit: the FA Cup has only 32 non-League clubs in the proper tournament. Only 736 teams entered.
    But that's what I was asking: can any US team, in theory, start winning and never stop and win the tourny, at least to the same degree that it is possible in the UK?
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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    The 8 Local Qualifier spots included the 2018 National Amateur Champion (Milwaukee) and 7 local qualifiers from four regions including 94 teams.
    This is the level I am concerned with -- those 94 teams. What criteria do they meet that the x thousand other local teams in the country do not? If that criteria is itself a pyramid, where the 94 have in turn each won qualifying tournaments in which dozens of other teams competed, then we're getting somewhere.

    If not, a pool of about 300 teams under consideration is still neat (it's basically March Madness). It's just not an "Open."
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-10-2019 at 06:25 AM.
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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    This is the level I am concerned with -- those 94 teams. What criteria do they meet that the x thousand other local teams in the country do not? If that criteria is itself a pyramid, where the 94 have in turn each won qualifying tournaments in which dozens of other teams competed, then we're getting somewhere.

    If not, a pool of about 300 teams under consideration is still neat (it's basically March Madness). It's just not an "Open."
    Well, let's remember that England is half the size of California. The biggest impediment is the fact that we're not a soccer rich country and the costs of travel are not nothing. I'm pretty sure any team that competes at a certain level can enter qualification if they want.

    There 11-16 teams in each regional for the Local Qualifiers. I don't know how those groups are determined and what whoever manages the LQs would do if 17 teams from one region wanted to qualify. I also have no idea how big the NAC is which AQs it's champion to the the Open Cup...
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits...Posted by Yager on 12/18/09: Remember, remember, the 18th of October (2003).

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    It's just not an "Open."
    It certainly can be an open without being a thousand teams. I understand that maybe you don't like that it doesn't include more amateur teams but I see no restriction that if you and a group of friends want to play in qualifying you can, granted you appear to need to be part of an amateur league at a certain level based on this comment on wikipedia, "Naples United FC 2 was disqualified, because the club was not affiliated with the U.S. Specialty Sports Association by the deadline for local amateur sides to participate in sanctioned league competition."
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits...Posted by Yager on 12/18/09: Remember, remember, the 18th of October (2003).

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    I understand that maybe you don't like that it doesn't include more amateur teams
    That's not my quibble. It could include 1 amateur team, or even zero, and I'd be fine with it as long as anybody can get on the conveyor belt at some early point, maybe even wrapping around well into previous years, and get their chance to win out.

    If there is no restriction then I have no beef. I completely understand why the formal portion of the tournament at the tail end, when they are down to x powers of 2, is dominated by set aside slots. That makes sense for TPTB to protect and market their various levels of the sport. IINM the FA Cup does the same thing.

    I would also have no problem with a deep, deep tourny (10+ rounds) where the early rounds are all geographically limited to cut down on travel times. Again, IINM the FA Cup does this too, since the very bottom of their pyramid (level, what, 6?) is divided regionally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    That's not my quibble. It could include 1 amateur team, or even zero, and I'd be fine with it as long as anybody can get on the conveyor belt at some early point, maybe even wrapping around well into previous years, and get their chance to win out.

    If there is no restriction then I have no beef. I completely understand why the formal portion of the tournament at the tail end, when they are down to x powers of 2, is dominated by set aside slots. That makes sense for TPTB to protect and market their various levels of the sport. IINM the FA Cup does the same thing.

    I would also have no problem with a deep, deep tourny (10+ rounds) where the early rounds are all geographically limited to cut down on travel times. Again, IINM the FA Cup does this too, since the very bottom of their pyramid (level, what, 6?) is divided regionally.
    Iím not sure what youíre failing to comprehend? Yes, any amateur team can theoretically advance all the way provided they are properly registered with the USSF. Thatís the whole point of the Local Qualifier system.

    As for regionalization, it is a regionalized tournament. In fact the only non-regional game is the final.

    Kep, on a somewhat personal note, try to do some basic research before commenting next time. This is all information that can be gotten in 5 minutes with Google and Wikipedia. I have respect for you and all but, youíre smarter than this.

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Europa League final is also all England.
    Chelsea vs Arsenal.

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Kep, on a somewhat personal note, try to do some basic research before commenting next time. This is all information that can be gotten in 5 minutes with Google and Wikipedia. I have respect for you and all but, you’re smarter than this.
    I tried to find the answer myself first. It was not at all clear from my google searches that any team can start from scratch and move all the way through without being blessed by some type of prior qualification. It was in fact not at all clear to people speaking on behalf of the system for quite some time. Let's not pretend it was a simple answer.

    The amount of defensiveness here whenever anyone has the temerity to question any aspect of the US soccer system as possibly a shade less than Divinely Inspired is highly telling. That is not how confident people act.
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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    What is wrong with Kepler asking questions of knowledge matter experts?

    Can't we converse instead of seeing or telling someone to fund it own their own??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I tried to find the answer myself first. It was not at all clear from my google searches that any team can start from scratch and move all the way through without being blessed by some type of prior qualification. It was in fact not at all clear to people speaking on behalf of the system for quite some time. Let's not pretend it was a simple answer.
    It is a simple answer and Shirtless and I were pretty clear on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    The amount of defensiveness here whenever anyone has the temerity to question any aspect of the US soccer system as possibly a shade less than Divinely Inspired is highly telling. That is not how confident people act.
    Itís not defensiveness, itís fatigue from stupidity.

    Iíve watched soccer and have followed US Soccer since I was child in the early 90ís. Iíve watched MLS since the beginning in 96, being so excited that there were finally professional teams in this country I could watch. Why? Because I can remember when these things didnít exist. I also remember the nervousness every winter wondering if the league was gonna restart that spring, something that realistically didnít go away until around 2008.

    I also remember reading online when every idiot came around clamoring for Pro/Rel or an August-May schedule because ďthatís how they do it in Europe!Ē Youíre not a genius bringing new ideas. Itís all be said before and the answer remains the same: thereís not enough money or popularity or stability.

    Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not, Iíd love to see changes made as much as the next person. But, this system has been the longest lasting and most sustainable system in US Soccer history. At 24 seasons.

    I get it, it would be awesome if the US Open Cup was this 1000+ team tournament, but there is barely even 100 viable teams in this country. It may well get there one day as professional soccer starts to achieve stability at all levels instead of just one.

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    Re: World Soccer XXIX: Pro/Rel USA! just kidding!

    Quote Originally Posted by mookie1995 View Post
    What is wrong with Kepler asking questions of knowledge matter experts?

    Can't we converse instead of seeing or telling someone to fund it own their own??
    I'm actually perfectly OK with "let me Google that for you" barbs, but I don't think this was that case considering I *did* google it first.

    I've also said obnoxious things about MLS to Jim in the past so he gets easily triggered when I mention US soccer. It's his incipient terror that Portland may be lurking someplace and about to take his team to the woodshed.

    Which will next be happening in about (checks rosters) 2022...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I've also said obnoxious things about MLS to Jim in the past so he gets easily triggered when I mention US soccer.
    This is not wrong.

    (MLS and US Soccer being the thing I am most passionate about)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    It's his incipient terror that Portland may be lurking someplace and about to take his team to the woodshed.
    This is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Which will next be happening in about (checks rosters) 2022...
    This could wrong or not wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    It is a simple answer and Shirtless and I were pretty clear on that.
    No, you weren't. You may have thought you were, but I could've shown it to my wife and it would've been gibberish to her.

    The simple answer was "yes, a team can form and win 20-something straight games and win the US Open Cup."

    What you said was there are regional qualifiers, with no explanation for how those are determined or if, in theory, anyone could win one ala Dodgeball.
    Last edited by unofan; 05-10-2019 at 07:25 PM.

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