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Thread: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

  1. #101
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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Boy this thread got infected with a lot of stupid. Folks need to read Lemonade's posts and think about the bigger picture. His last 3-4 posts and possibly beyond are spot on. This trend to older players is stupid and sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010 View Post
    The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    I'm glad to have a couple of people comment on why they think the age thing is a problem. I think I'm going to stick with my belief that there is no problem. It still seems to me like much ado about nothing. I believe that I understand why Lemonade and J.D. have a problem, I just don't see it as one.

    That said, Lemonade, your assumptions about the age of college age students is false. Obviously, the majority of undergrad students fit in the 18-23-ish age range. But not really very close to 95% The reason I'm harping on this a little bit is the fact that I'm completely positive that I would have gotten a better education if I had worked a couple of years before I went to college. I'm not whining about it, but if I'd known then what I know now, I would have waited a little bit. Quite a few kids these days are doing exactly that. (I'm not suggesting that this has anything at all to do with the older hockey players, but since I objected to your use of the phrase college-age kids when it's clear to me that a 26-yr-old absolutely is a normal college-age kid, I reckon I ought to make my point.)

    The Hamilton Project works out of the Brookings Institute. Their data comes from NCES. I'm not sharing this because of the data at for-profit colleges. I'm pointing out that according to this, 20% of undergrads at typical colleges are 25 years old or older.
    Last edited by duper; 04-23-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  3. #103
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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    He proved my point. If 16.2% are between 25 and 29 then 83.8% are normal COLLEGE AGE kids that being 18-23.
    This is incorrect. You are making the assumption that there are ZERO college students that are over 29 years old. If you looked at the link that was provided, in 2016, college students aged 18-24 made up a total of 58.5% of all college students.
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  4. #104
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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottK View Post
    This is incorrect. You are making the assumption that there are ZERO college students that are over 29 years old. If you looked at the link that was provided, in 2016, college students aged 18-24 made up a total of 58.5% of all college students.
    9x% of the remaining 41.5% are not playing college athletics.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    ITT, people scared their team won't be able to compete without 25 year olds.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by duper View Post
    I'm glad to have a couple of people comment on why they think the age thing is a problem. I think I'm going to stick with my belief that there is no problem. It still seems to me like much ado about nothing. I believe that I understand why Lemonade and J.D. have a problem, I just don't see it as one.

    That said, Lemonade, your assumptions about the age of college age students is false. Obviously, the majority of undergrad students fit in the 18-23-ish age range. But not really very close to 95% The reason I'm harping on this a little bit is the fact that I'm completely positive that I would have gotten a better education if I had worked a couple of years before I went to college. I'm not whining about it, but if I'd known then what I know now, I would have waited a little bit. Quite a few kids these days are doing exactly that. (I'm not suggesting that this has anything at all to do with the older hockey players, but since I objected to your use of the phrase college-age kids when it's clear to me that a 26-yr-old absolutely is a normal college-age kid, I reckon I ought to make my point.)

    The Hamilton Project works out of the Brookings Institute. Their data comes from NCES. I'm not sharing this because of the data at for-profit colleges. I'm pointing out that according to this, 20% of undergrads at typical colleges are 25 years old or older.
    What planet is that a 26 year old is a normal aged college kid? I get the data is skewed - some 75 year old people go back to school to take classes....if you are 26 and still in an undergraduate program you are not the norm. You either messed around for a 5 years after high school or your should be cast in the next Animal House.

    Lets circle back - THERE IS NO OTHER NCAA SPORT - EVEN WOMENS HOCKEY - that works like NCAA hockey does by essentially requires multiple years of junior level play before going to college.

    Just for debate - say NCAA requires players to enroll within a year after HS graduation...whats the issue? Whats the drawback of having 18-23 year old kids playing against 18-23 old players in college?
    Last edited by Lemonade; 04-23-2019 at 11:20 AM.

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    this debate is like Pi,

    natural, irrational and er.. kinda important.

  8. #108
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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    What planet is that a 26 year old is a normal aged college kid?
    Earth. I got my degree at 28 because I was working full-time while attending school working towards my degree for several years. Obviously my field was specialized (meteorology), but of the 9 people in my graduating class from my major, 4 of them were 26 or older at graduation. Just because YOU think everyone should be done with undergrad by 23 doesn't mean that's the way everyone thinks. As I pointed our before, over 40% of college students across the nation are 25 or older.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Zero fans can tell the difference between an 18 year olds and 20 year olds hockey game. None. People arent staying home because the quality of NCAA is declining. NCAA football/NCAA Basketball/EVERY OTHER NCAA sport quality of play is just fine and they are all normal college aged students.
    I can.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottK View Post
    Earth. I got my degree at 28 because I was working full-time while attending school working towards my degree for several years. Obviously my field was specialized (meteorology), but of the 9 people in my graduating class from my major, 4 of them were 26 or older at graduation. Just because YOU think everyone should be done with undergrad by 23 doesn't mean that's the way everyone thinks. As I pointed our before, over 40% of college students across the nation are 25 or older.
    Thats totally different than being a full time college student. You were a part time student. We are discussing full time NCAA students. Of course there are huge percentages of older people that are part time college students.

  11. #111
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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Thats totally different than being a full time college student. You were a part time student. We are discussing full time NCAA students. Of course there are huge percentages of older people that are part time college students.
    What about the hockey players and other NCAA athletes with jobs like so many non-athlete students? Oh wait...
    I will not be out cheered in my own building.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Thats totally different than being a full time college student. You were a part time student. We are discussing full time NCAA students. Of course there are huge percentages of older people that are part time college students.
    Actually, I was a full-time student, taking on a full class load for the final 2 years while working full-time. Going back to the NCES data, 25% of full-time students are age 25 or older. Were all of them "messing around for a 5 years after high school or should be cast in the next Animal House"?

    What's the percentage of hockey players that are 25 or older? (Hint: it's a LOT less than 25%).
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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    What planet is that a 26 year old is a normal aged college kid? I get the data is skewed - some 75 year old people go back to school to take classes....if you are 26 and still in an undergraduate program you are not the norm. You either messed around for a 5 years after high school or your should be cast in the next Animal House.
    How dare you disrespect Thornton Mellon like this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010 View Post
    The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Just for debate - say NCAA requires players to enroll within a year after HS graduation...whats the issue? Whats the drawback of having 18-23 year old kids playing against 18-23 old players in college?
    This is a rhetorical question! We all know the answer! Just some people are butthurt about the answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010 View Post
    The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottK View Post
    Actually, I was a full-time student, taking on a full class load for the final 2 years while working full-time. Going back to the NCES data, 25% of full-time students are age 25 or older. Were all of them "messing around for a 5 years after high school or should be cast in the next Animal House"?

    What's the percentage of hockey players that are 25 or older? (Hint: it's a LOT less than 25%).
    NCES doenst take into consideration level of degree. I am willing to bet a massive percentage of the 25% full time students 25 or older are already 4 year degree students and are going for masters/PhD.

  16. #116
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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    NCES doenst take into consideration level of degree. I am willing to bet a massive percentage of the 25% full time students 25 or older are already 4 year degree students and are going for masters/PhD.
    I believe the original argument was that the age range of players is skewed compared to the rest of the student population. Here are some plots that should make for a more useful comparison, since they eliminate part-time and graduate students:

    https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_csb.asp

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottK View Post
    Earth. I got my degree at....
    Which athletic program were you on?

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Zero fans can tell the difference between an 18 year olds and 20 year olds hockey game. None. People arent staying home because the quality of NCAA is declining. NCAA football/NCAA Basketball/EVERY OTHER NCAA sport quality of play is just fine and they are all normal college aged students.
    I have to push the button on this one. Any hockey fan with a little bit of experience can tell the difference between 18 year olds and 20 year olds. And EVERY hockey coach can. Most hockey coaches who want to win, would prefer to get the kids after a couple years of Junior. If you watch much Junior Hockey, most of the teams that go deep in the playoffs rely heavily on their 20 year olds because they are better and more mature, both mentally and physically. There are some exceptions, but they are just that. I prefer to see NCAA hockey at a significantly higher level than Junior. I believe that it is the next step. And I don't understand why it is such an issue to some of you? I think that it is okay for some student/athletes to take a couple of gap years, play some Junior hockey and then go to college with more maturity and skill and strength. What parent wouldn't support such a plan for their kid? Just my two cents and not worth much more than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redwing61 View Post
    I believe the original argument was that the age range of players is skewed compared to the rest of the student population. Here are some plots that should make for a more useful comparison, since they eliminate part-time and graduate students:

    https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_csb.asp
    So, 11% of undergrad students are over 25 and 7% of NCAA hockey players.

    Sounds like people need to invent a new argument for their manufactured outrage.

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    Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by broncoinak View Post
    So, 11% of undergrad students are over 25 and 7% of NCAA hockey players.
    And it's actually less than 7%. Turns out Elite Prospects' U## pages are based on birth year, so I edited my earlier post to say "born before 1995". That means many have not yet turned 25. I'm not going to go through every individual player's birth date, but I would guess it's more like 4% were over 25 by the end of this season.

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