So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

[PSUChamps2001]

So my only question is...for those crying about the "drive" to the rural cities, are you going to be the first one crying at the hotel costs in the bigger cities? Or the raised food costs, travel costs, parking costs? Sometimes bigger isn't always better. New York City...awesome....get your pocket books ready. Same for Boston. We go to Boston in May for a tournament, cheapest hotel around Warrior complex was $250 a night.

Combining Mens and Womens at a smaller venue would be ideal. But then you will have the Women's fans crying how they're being treated as second fiddle just as some would cry that DIII is second fiddle to DI if they combined. Pick your battles. Want to keep it at school venues? Fine, but give the teams the option (mandate) to utilize bigger nearby venues if their seating capacity is too small. Logistical nightmare? Absolutely. I think the days of huge crowds at big venues have gone by the wayside IMO. Utica at home, maybe. Combining with the womens DIII would make the perfect sense, but this is the NCAA...the only thing that makes sense is not making sense with them...

[KrbFlint]

I disagree with the idea of treating the DIII championships as the opening act, which is how they would be treated in this scenario. These players deserve to be the main the event of their championship that they worked for.

Men's lacrosse holds their Final Four all together, and it seems to be a great event. I have no personal experience, but I doubt those kids feel slighted.

[KnightsOfTheRound]

So my only question is...for those crying about the "drive" to the rural cities, are you going to be the first one crying at the hotel costs in the bigger cities? Or the raised food costs, travel costs, parking costs? Sometimes bigger isn't always better. New York City...awesome....get your pocket books ready. Same for Boston. We go to Boston in May for a tournament, cheapest hotel around Warrior complex was $250 a night.

Combining Mens and Womens at a smaller venue would be ideal. But then you will have the Women's fans crying how they're being treated as second fiddle just as some would cry that DIII is second fiddle to DI if they combined. Pick your battles. Want to keep it at school venues? Fine, but give the teams the option (mandate) to utilize bigger nearby venues if their seating capacity is too small. Logistical nightmare? Absolutely. I think the days of huge crowds at big venues have gone by the wayside IMO. Utica at home, maybe. Combining with the womens DIII would make the perfect sense, but this is the NCAA...the only thing that makes sense is not making sense with them...

It's not always just a drive to a rural town. It could be a flight to a regional airport, and then rent a car, and then drive to a rural town.

A nice thing about putting it in a city is there are more attractions than just the games. There's a reason the D1 championships are all in cities and include those cities heavily in their marketing: because they're a part of the experience of the championship weekend and a destination for the fans. Nothing against Stevens Point, WI but it changes the value proposition about deciding to travel or not when you know that there are attractions at your destination other than one or maybe two hockey games.

I'm not arguing it needs be in a city every year, just that cities should continue to be part of the rotational mix -- I would argue a bigger part of the mix than they are now.

[cetihcra]

Men's lacrosse holds their Final Four all together, and it seems to be a great event. I have no personal experience, but I doubt those kids feel slighted.

Lax is a different animal all-together. Championship Weekend is ALWAYS held in Boston or the mid-atlantic, without exception....near where most of the D1 college lax schools are, and most of the D2/D3 schools. They never (EVER) have their championships in places like Tampa, Anaheim, Denver. Hockey does. A Frozen Four in Denver that included the D3 championship would be a nightmare...there's not a D3 hockey school or fanbase within a thousand miles. That scenario is even worse for Anaheim.

Might it work in St. Paul or Boston, or even Pittsburgh? Perhaps, if D1 moves their schedule up such that the Frozen Four is before the hoops F4, which they should probably do anyway given the attendance and TV ratings of this year's F4.

The D2 and D3 lacrosse championships are also held on the same field as D1 -- That wouldn't fly in hockey, it's too expensive to open an NHL barn for the 3k people that would watch D3.

r

[PSUChamps2001]

It's not always just a drive to a rural town. It could be a flight to a regional airport, and then rent a car, and then drive to a rural town.

A nice thing about putting it in a city is there are more attractions than just the games. There's a reason the D1 championships are all in cities and include those cities heavily in their marketing: because they're a part of the experience of the championship weekend and a destination for the fans. Nothing against Stevens Point, WI but it changes the value proposition about deciding to travel or not when you know that there are attractions at your destination other than one or maybe two hockey games.

I'm not arguing it needs be in a city every year, just that cities should continue to be part of the rotational mix -- I would argue a bigger part of the mix than they are now.

You're forgetting one major thing. This isn't about YOU the FAN. NCAA could care less what you the fan finds to do. Also on top of that, if you're going to both games Friday and the Championship game Saturday, there isn't much time to "do" anything in a major city. Outside of maybe New York city (if I were to fly) I am renting a car anyways. I guess I'm just not afraid to drive? I've driven the 24 hours to River Falls years ago. It was part of the experience. No one in their right mind is going jump at the chance to spend the $$$ in these big cities to host a National Tournament thats going to bring in maybe 2,000 fans...maybe. The only chance you get 4,000 plus fans is if Oswego, Plattsburgh, and Utica make the Final Four in Utica. We've seen what happens in the West at a Neutral site, empty buildings. How many more fans are you going to get at a Final Four in NYC compared to Lake Placid? Very few, even if you could convince a venue to host it. (don't you think there is a reason why they went to these campus sites? - no one wants to host half *** attended tournament). The headaches of big cities vs smaller comfortable "rural" cities....I doubt I would go.

Again, the NCAA doesn't care about what the casual fan wants to do. All they care is if some sucker wants to host (spend their money) the tournament and take the flack when it flops. The dumbest thing ever was when there was talk of combining the DIII with DI. The casual DIII fan won't spend the time or money to drive to Lake Placid, but expect them to fly/drive to Tampa or California when its there... lol

[KrbFlint]

Lax is a different animal all-together. Championship Weekend is ALWAYS held in Boston or the mid-atlantic, without exception....near where most of the D1 college lax schools are, and most of the D2/D3 schools. They never (EVER) have their championships in places like Tampa, Anaheim, Denver. Hockey does. A Frozen Four in Denver that included the D3 championship would be a nightmare...there's not a D3 hockey school or fanbase within a thousand miles. That scenario is even worse for Anaheim.

Might it work in St. Paul or Boston, or even Pittsburgh? Perhaps, if D1 moves their schedule up such that the Frozen Four is before the hoops F4, which they should probably do anyway given the attendance and TV ratings of this year's F4.

The D2 and D3 lacrosse championships are also held on the same field as D1 -- That wouldn't fly in hockey, it's too expensive to open an NHL barn for the 3k people that would watch D3.

r

Your points are valid; I was primarily posting in response to the D3 guys feeling slighted if they were all held together. However, attendance at recent Frozen Fours (and I realize there are a lot of factors in play) tells me the D1 braintrust better start thinking outside the proverbial box.

As far as 3k people watching the D3 game, I suspect SOME of the people in town for the D1 games might also attend the D3 games. I know this happens in lacrosse.

[PSUChamps2001]

Your points are valid; I was primarily posting in response to the D3 guys feeling slighted if they were all held together. However, attendance at recent Frozen Fours (and I realize there are a lot of factors in play) tells me the D1 braintrust better start thinking outside the proverbial box.

As far as 3k people watching the D3 game, I suspect SOME of the people in town for the D1 games might also attend the D3 games. I know this happens in lacrosse.

That's where the 3k comes from. We havent had 3k in a DIII tournament in years....

[KrbFlint]

That's where the 3k comes from. We havent had 3k in a DIII tournament in years....

Again, I'm not trying to argue any of those points. This was posted: "I disagree with the idea of treating the DIII championships as the opening act, which is how they would be treated in this scenario. These players deserve to be the main the event of their championship that they worked for". Using the lacrosse comparison, I said that I don't know if the D3 guys would actually feel like the "opening act".

I'm not trying to get into an argument with anyone. What I will say is, I love college hockey and the attendance at BOTH tourneys hasn't been great. I want to see it grow. Lax (also a traditionally northeast sport) has BLOWN BY hockey in championship interest/attendance. "We" need to start thinking outside the box.

[bakdraft21]

Lax is also played at a different time of year,nice and sunny Spring,we all know the weather that can be encountered during the Final 4,that doesn't help in drawing people in maybe we can end the season in Mayish

[Fishman'81]

Only issue if we are talking neutral....the Aud is not a neutral site for D3 hockey...

The Aud would very likely be a neutral site for the foreseeable future.

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

It's tough to beat Utica as a neutral site in the East, by almost any yardstick. Probably would have sold-out had an Oswego or Geneseo been there, too.

Having attended D3 championships at both, I would rank Herb Brooks Arena ahead of the Aud, and not just because I live closer.

That said, both have that same problem of arguably being “too” big. I’ve said before that I’m a supporter of the predetermined site, but I get the argument about atmosphere. Lake Placid and Utica are probably too big (although, as you point out, one or two of Geneseo/Oswego/Hobart/Elmira in the tournament might fill it up nicely), but the majority of campus sites are way too small. It’s DIII hockey; buying a ticket should feel like I’m trying to find Super Bowl tickets from a scalper. This year, although I didn’t go, we have examples of that kind of struggle to get tickets.

I’m not sure what the solution is, but there HAS to be a good balance somewhere. Unfortunately, it’s all subjective and we may never agree on what that “right” balance is.

[Russell Jaslow]

Didn’t Potsdam and Plattsburgh co-host the finals at Lake Placid? It’s possible I’m misremembering but I think it’s possible for more than one school to share the responsibility.

The whole thing should be managed centrally by the NCAA. The current system where the responsibility is outsourced to whoever is willing is not great.

Potsdam hosted the first one in Lake Placid.

All subsequent ones were hosted by Plattsburgh. They never co-hosted.

Though, ORDA really does all the work in Lake Placid, but the NCAA requires an NCAA institution/conference to host. And it doesn't even have to have the sport. Navy hosted the D1 FF in Washington D.C. the MAAC (along with Canisius and Niagara) hosted the recent Buffalo FF.

A general point to all these folks throwing out neutral site suggestions -- you need someone to host, and many institutions don't want to host. Plus, the venue needs to be "secured" for the whole weekend. So, you can't just pick a local one for campus sites if your school's arena is too small, if you haven't planned well in advance for the possibility with that local venue.

[Russell Jaslow]

Lax is also played at a different time of year,nice and sunny Spring,we all know the weather that can be encountered during the Final 4,that doesn't help in drawing people in maybe we can end the season in Mayish

Move all college hockey championships to Hawaii all on one weekend in a massive celebration of college hockey ... and partying.

[Russell Jaslow]

If Geneseo/Oswego are in that FF, tickets will be a concern again. If neither of those are there and barring a miraculous run by Fredonia or Buffalo State, I don't think seating should be a huge issue for that, but I could be wrong.

If anyone has looked at the D-I Frozen Four, the casual fan has not shown up at First Niagara this year...13,000 fans in a 19,000 seat arena. However, I think the $300 price tag for all-session passes might be the biggest reason for that.

First Niagara???? You're a little behind the times.

[Russell Jaslow]

Given how poor attendance is with the D-I tournament as it is, there’s a good argument for moving the D-I season back a week. Not enough for full alignment, but not nothing.

I tend to think details like this are easily solved when scheduling things a few years in advance.

Moving the Frozen Four away from the Final Four had nothing to do with attendance. It had to do with exposure. Not that it gets that much, but during the Final Four weekend, hockey got absolutely zero exposure.

As for attendance at D1, they just need to adjust the pricing a bit, and it will be back to sellout arenas.

[Bill-R-]

There are tons of minor league hockey rinks that fit that description. The hard part is finding a school or organization to do the work in hosting at a neutral site like that when the possibility exists that their team won’t be in the final four.

Wonder if Oswego would ever want to team up with the War Memorial in Syracuse to host a final four?

[PSUChamps2001]

Wonder if Oswego would ever want to team up with the War Memorial in Syracuse to host a final four?

Omg please no...that dump?

[Bill-R-]

Omg please no...that dump?

They just spent a fortune in renovations I believe.

[PSUChamps2001]

They just spent a fortune in renovations I believe.

Played there...practiced there....not worth it....