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Thread: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

  1. #61
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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    So my only question is...for those crying about the "drive" to the rural cities, are you going to be the first one crying at the hotel costs in the bigger cities? Or the raised food costs, travel costs, parking costs? Sometimes bigger isn't always better. New York City...awesome....get your pocket books ready. Same for Boston. We go to Boston in May for a tournament, cheapest hotel around Warrior complex was $250 a night.

    Combining Mens and Womens at a smaller venue would be ideal. But then you will have the Women's fans crying how they're being treated as second fiddle just as some would cry that DIII is second fiddle to DI if they combined. Pick your battles. Want to keep it at school venues? Fine, but give the teams the option (mandate) to utilize bigger nearby venues if their seating capacity is too small. Logistical nightmare? Absolutely. I think the days of huge crowds at big venues have gone by the wayside IMO. Utica at home, maybe. Combining with the womens DIII would make the perfect sense, but this is the NCAA...the only thing that makes sense is not making sense with them...

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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_TG View Post
    I disagree with the idea of treating the DIII championships as the opening act, which is how they would be treated in this scenario. These players deserve to be the main the event of their championship that they worked for.
    Men's lacrosse holds their Final Four all together, and it seems to be a great event. I have no personal experience, but I doubt those kids feel slighted.

  3. #63
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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    So my only question is...for those crying about the "drive" to the rural cities, are you going to be the first one crying at the hotel costs in the bigger cities? Or the raised food costs, travel costs, parking costs? Sometimes bigger isn't always better. New York City...awesome....get your pocket books ready. Same for Boston. We go to Boston in May for a tournament, cheapest hotel around Warrior complex was $250 a night.

    Combining Mens and Womens at a smaller venue would be ideal. But then you will have the Women's fans crying how they're being treated as second fiddle just as some would cry that DIII is second fiddle to DI if they combined. Pick your battles. Want to keep it at school venues? Fine, but give the teams the option (mandate) to utilize bigger nearby venues if their seating capacity is too small. Logistical nightmare? Absolutely. I think the days of huge crowds at big venues have gone by the wayside IMO. Utica at home, maybe. Combining with the womens DIII would make the perfect sense, but this is the NCAA...the only thing that makes sense is not making sense with them...
    It's not always just a drive to a rural town. It could be a flight to a regional airport, and then rent a car, and then drive to a rural town.

    A nice thing about putting it in a city is there are more attractions than just the games. There's a reason the D1 championships are all in cities and include those cities heavily in their marketing: because they're a part of the experience of the championship weekend and a destination for the fans. Nothing against Stevens Point, WI but it changes the value proposition about deciding to travel or not when you know that there are attractions at your destination other than one or maybe two hockey games.

    I'm not arguing it needs be in a city every year, just that cities should continue to be part of the rotational mix -- I would argue a bigger part of the mix than they are now.
    #OneKnight

  4. #64
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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrbFlint View Post
    Men's lacrosse holds their Final Four all together, and it seems to be a great event. I have no personal experience, but I doubt those kids feel slighted.
    Lax is a different animal all-together. Championship Weekend is ALWAYS held in Boston or the mid-atlantic, without exception....near where most of the D1 college lax schools are, and most of the D2/D3 schools. They never (EVER) have their championships in places like Tampa, Anaheim, Denver. Hockey does. A Frozen Four in Denver that included the D3 championship would be a nightmare...there's not a D3 hockey school or fanbase within a thousand miles. That scenario is even worse for Anaheim.

    Might it work in St. Paul or Boston, or even Pittsburgh? Perhaps, if D1 moves their schedule up such that the Frozen Four is before the hoops F4, which they should probably do anyway given the attendance and TV ratings of this year's F4.

    The D2 and D3 lacrosse championships are also held on the same field as D1 -- That wouldn't fly in hockey, it's too expensive to open an NHL barn for the 3k people that would watch D3.

    r

  5. #65
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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightsOfTheRound View Post
    It's not always just a drive to a rural town. It could be a flight to a regional airport, and then rent a car, and then drive to a rural town.

    A nice thing about putting it in a city is there are more attractions than just the games. There's a reason the D1 championships are all in cities and include those cities heavily in their marketing: because they're a part of the experience of the championship weekend and a destination for the fans. Nothing against Stevens Point, WI but it changes the value proposition about deciding to travel or not when you know that there are attractions at your destination other than one or maybe two hockey games.

    I'm not arguing it needs be in a city every year, just that cities should continue to be part of the rotational mix -- I would argue a bigger part of the mix than they are now.
    You're forgetting one major thing. This isn't about YOU the FAN. NCAA could care less what you the fan finds to do. Also on top of that, if you're going to both games Friday and the Championship game Saturday, there isn't much time to "do" anything in a major city. Outside of maybe New York city (if I were to fly) I am renting a car anyways. I guess I'm just not afraid to drive? I've driven the 24 hours to River Falls years ago. It was part of the experience. No one in their right mind is going jump at the chance to spend the $$$ in these big cities to host a National Tournament thats going to bring in maybe 2,000 fans...maybe. The only chance you get 4,000 plus fans is if Oswego, Plattsburgh, and Utica make the Final Four in Utica. We've seen what happens in the West at a Neutral site, empty buildings. How many more fans are you going to get at a Final Four in NYC compared to Lake Placid? Very few, even if you could convince a venue to host it. (don't you think there is a reason why they went to these campus sites? - no one wants to host half *** attended tournament). The headaches of big cities vs smaller comfortable "rural" cities....I doubt I would go.

    Again, the NCAA doesn't care about what the casual fan wants to do. All they care is if some sucker wants to host (spend their money) the tournament and take the flack when it flops. The dumbest thing ever was when there was talk of combining the DIII with DI. The casual DIII fan won't spend the time or money to drive to Lake Placid, but expect them to fly/drive to Tampa or California when its there... lol

  6. #66
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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by cetihcra View Post
    Lax is a different animal all-together. Championship Weekend is ALWAYS held in Boston or the mid-atlantic, without exception....near where most of the D1 college lax schools are, and most of the D2/D3 schools. They never (EVER) have their championships in places like Tampa, Anaheim, Denver. Hockey does. A Frozen Four in Denver that included the D3 championship would be a nightmare...there's not a D3 hockey school or fanbase within a thousand miles. That scenario is even worse for Anaheim.

    Might it work in St. Paul or Boston, or even Pittsburgh? Perhaps, if D1 moves their schedule up such that the Frozen Four is before the hoops F4, which they should probably do anyway given the attendance and TV ratings of this year's F4.

    The D2 and D3 lacrosse championships are also held on the same field as D1 -- That wouldn't fly in hockey, it's too expensive to open an NHL barn for the 3k people that would watch D3.

    r
    Your points are valid; I was primarily posting in response to the D3 guys feeling slighted if they were all held together. However, attendance at recent Frozen Fours (and I realize there are a lot of factors in play) tells me the D1 braintrust better start thinking outside the proverbial box.

    As far as 3k people watching the D3 game, I suspect SOME of the people in town for the D1 games might also attend the D3 games. I know this happens in lacrosse.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrbFlint View Post
    Your points are valid; I was primarily posting in response to the D3 guys feeling slighted if they were all held together. However, attendance at recent Frozen Fours (and I realize there are a lot of factors in play) tells me the D1 braintrust better start thinking outside the proverbial box.

    As far as 3k people watching the D3 game, I suspect SOME of the people in town for the D1 games might also attend the D3 games. I know this happens in lacrosse.
    That's where the 3k comes from. We havent had 3k in a DIII tournament in years....

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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    That's where the 3k comes from. We havent had 3k in a DIII tournament in years....
    Again, I'm not trying to argue any of those points. This was posted: "I disagree with the idea of treating the DIII championships as the opening act, which is how they would be treated in this scenario. These players deserve to be the main the event of their championship that they worked for". Using the lacrosse comparison, I said that I don't know if the D3 guys would actually feel like the "opening act".

    I'm not trying to get into an argument with anyone. What I will say is, I love college hockey and the attendance at BOTH tourneys hasn't been great. I want to see it grow. Lax (also a traditionally northeast sport) has BLOWN BY hockey in championship interest/attendance. "We" need to start thinking outside the box.

  9. #69
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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Lax is also played at a different time of year,nice and sunny Spring,we all know the weather that can be encountered during the Final 4,that doesn't help in drawing people in maybe we can end the season in Mayish

  10. #70
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    Re: So, How Did The Campus Site Work Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdwatcher View Post
    Only issue if we are talking neutral....the Aud is not a neutral site for D3 hockey...
    The Aud would very likely be a neutral site for the foreseeable future.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    It's tough to beat Utica as a neutral site in the East, by almost any yardstick. Probably would have sold-out had an Oswego or Geneseo been there, too.
    Having attended D3 championships at both, I would rank Herb Brooks Arena ahead of the Aud, and not just because I live closer.

    That said, both have that same problem of arguably being ďtooĒ big. Iíve said before that Iím a supporter of the predetermined site, but I get the argument about atmosphere. Lake Placid and Utica are probably too big (although, as you point out, one or two of Geneseo/Oswego/Hobart/Elmira in the tournament might fill it up nicely), but the majority of campus sites are way too small. Itís DIII hockey; buying a ticket should feel like Iím trying to find Super Bowl tickets from a scalper. This year, although I didnít go, we have examples of that kind of struggle to get tickets.

    Iím not sure what the solution is, but there HAS to be a good balance somewhere. Unfortunately, itís all subjective and we may never agree on what that ďrightĒ balance is.

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