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Thread: 2019 Transfers

  1. #301
    #SOAR TonyTheTiger20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeydad23 View Post
    The NCAA is closer to an organized crime syndicate than it is to the image they try to portray (one of caring about what's best for student athletes.....blah, blah, blah). The reality is, the only time a student athlete has any control over their own destiny is before they sign the NLI (ie, while they're being recruited). Just because someone is a scholarship student-athlete does not mean their rights and options should be more limited than any other student. The genesis of the "sit a year" transfer rule was supposedly to allow the student athlete to acclimate to the new school without the pressure of the sport as well. However, this quickly morphed into another way that coaches and schools (and the NCAA) exert control over young adults who also happen to be student-athletes.

    It happens every year, every where, many graduated high schoolers leave home and head off to their dream University/College and for one reason or another after a semester or 2 many of them realize that their 'dream school' isn't what they thought/hoped it would be so they are free to transfer anywhere they want (and can get in). What is the basis for limiting student athletes ability to transfer? It's simple, it is control for the University's and coaches that put their time in recruiting and developing said player. Fans of teams don't like the transfer thing because it makes it harder to have continuity with the players on your favorite team, but ask yourself, is that really a good enough reason to limit a young persons options? Personally, I think not!

    The loosened transfer rules are about the only thing the NCAA has done in recent years (along with cost of attendance scholarships) to actually help student athletes. Coaches come and go, Administrators come and go, why shouldn't the student athletes be able to too? Best wishes to Lonergan and Watts and to BC and their remaining players as well!
    Nailed it

  2. #302
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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeydad23 View Post
    The loosened transfer rules are about the only thing the NCAA has done in recent years (along with cost of attendance scholarships) to actually help student athletes. Coaches come and go, Administrators come and go, why shouldn't the student athletes be able to too? Best wishes to Lonergan and Watts and to BC and their remaining players as well!
    Would this not be complete chaos if there were no limits to transfers? Each staff would have to hire 2 or 3 assistants to evaluate who to try and transfer.
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  3. #303
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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    Would this not be complete chaos if there were no limits to transfers? Each staff would have to hire 2 or 3 assistants to evaluate who to try and transfer.
    There is a difference between allowing students to transfer and allowing coaches to try to poach players from other rosters.
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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    Would this not be complete chaos if there were no limits to transfers? Each staff would have to hire 2 or 3 assistants to evaluate who to try and transfer.
    Or, the NCAA could treat athletes like employees, and bargain over working conditions, which would include rules on transfers.

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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    but what does sitting out a year accomplish?
    This is a good question. The answer is it is a way for the coaches and programs to protect their investments. A whole lot of time and money is spent in recruiting, training and educating a player so to have them be able to transfer so easily is a considerable "business risk". If I'm the coaches, I do whatever I can to get the NCAA to instill the sit-out-a-year policy across the women's D1 hockey.

    No one is forcing any of these women to play D1 hockey. They can play D3 if the transfer rule doesn't exist there or not play at all and just go to school. It's not much different than companies/occupations that require employees to sign non-competes which severely limit their employment options should they leave the company. If you don't want to sign a non-compete, look for a job somewhere else.

  6. #306
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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by ARM View Post
    There is a difference between allowing students to transfer and allowing coaches to try to poach players from other rosters.
    Is there? In theory yes, but in practice, maybe not. Backchannel communications could easily lead a young lady to enter the portal knowing there is a roster spot waiting for her at a better hockey home on the other side.
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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Why would universities want to treat athletes like employees? Students are not employees, although some of them may have jobs separate from their education at the school.

    Athletes want to advance in their sport and the schools give them an avenue for it, nobody puts a gun to their head and forces them. In fact they are treated like prima donnas, receiving much perks not available to other students. Unless you have ever attended a school without athletics, you don’t realize what a pain in the rear and drag on receiving an education these so-called student-athletes are. They are athlete-students (most of them).

    Grad students are expected to teach classes and act as teaching assistants. You don’t earn a doctorate and then *poof* you are a professor, you actually need experience teaching students (amazing I know).

    Grad students have, like athletes at some schools, organized and try to extra perks from their school. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact they’d be dumb not to. But to expect these perks and argue they are employees, just like the athletes arguing they are employees is just that, an argument. They are students and not employees. Employees can quit whenever they want and go somewhere else (I repeat, anytime, athletes and students cannot without great cost to themselves.). There are many other differences.
    A woman who is in control of her body has no need for an abortion.

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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    Why would universities want to treat athletes like employees?
    They don't, which is why they've made ridiculous arguments in court to keep from having to. As I've said, they have sworn an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and then told courts that generating revenue is not, in any way, a significant consideration in how they run their athletic departments. Judges and juries keep buying that argument, demonstrating how desperate everyone seems to be to pretend that obvious reality is false and a comforting myth is true. Read up on the Marc Buoniconti case, just one of many times they have done this.

    But the athletes are employees, even if they are not legally recognized as such. They perform a job in exchange for remuneration. Their boss within the university sets their schedules and working conditions. If they quit the team, they lose their compensation. And the universities that argued in court that the NCAA was in violation of antitrust laws for setting rules that limited the amount of that revenue they aren't at all concerned with that they could earn from TV networks are perfectly happy to argue that rules limiting the ability of their not-employees to play at another school are not an anticompetitive violation of those same laws.

    The universities' position on this is morally indefensible. Their willingness to commit perjury, confident that no one will call them on it, is contemptible. It shouldn't take lawsuit after lawsuit to try to get them to do the right thing. They should step up and treat the athletes as what they are: employees. Instead, the prefer a system in which they bear no legal responsibility to pay the medical costs of someone paralyzed from the neck down working for them.
    Last edited by Still Eeyore; 06-14-2019 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    blah blah blah ... even if they are not legally recognized as such..,.. blah blah blah....
    the only thing that matters, the legality

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    blah blah blah.... They perform a job in exchange for remuneration. ... blah blah.
    I get paid for performing a job, yet I am not an employee of the company that I do the work for either.

    so how are they different than other students who receive scholarship? even if there is a difference, that doesn't make them an employee
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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    I get paid for performing a job, yet I am not an employee of the company that I do the work for either.
    Then you are almost certainly a contractor, which has its own set of regulations. Scholarship athletes don't qualify as one of those, either. And scholarship athletes do not meet the criteria that would allow the universities to declare them to be independent contractors.

    so how are they different than other students who receive scholarship? even if there is a difference, that doesn't make them an employee
    My advice is to not edit out the places where I describe the differences, and then keep asking the same question.

    Unlike the sort of students on scholarship that you are referring to, athletes are required to perform a job in order to keep theirs. They must show up at certain times and places. They must do what their supervisor tells them to do. If they do not do these things, they lose their scholarship. That makes it a job, and makes the athletes employees.

    You edited out the part where I described the legal gymnastics that the NCAA goes through to prevent the athletes from being considered employees. A key element in the cases that have been decided, including the Marc Buoniconti trial, is that the athletic department cannot use revenue generation as a significant part of how it makes decisions about running its operations. If it does, then it is considered a commercial enterprise. If it's a commercial enterprise, then the people who perform the tasks that generate the revenue are employees.

    So, unless you are prepared to confront and accept the argument that D1 university athletic departments do not consider generating revenue as a part of their operations, you have to accept that the athletes are employees. The latter necessarily follows from the negation of the former. Note, the key element is revenue, not profit.

  11. #311
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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    Revenue generation is a significant part of how they make decisions in men's basketball and football. So why don't we all just accept the fact that women's sports are preposterous propositions and turn them all over to the marketplace.

    Maybe we cab spin off basketball and football into another set of pro leagues. Get the colleges out of the sports business altogether instead of having the women playing parasite off the men for payroll crumbs due to some federal Title IX ruling. Since the real point is revenue generation and not federal funds.

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    Re: 2019 Transfers

    A major reason Universityís donít want athletes to be considered employees, in addition to having to pay them, is workerís compensation. Imagine the premiums schools would pay and athletic injuries of which there are many in every sport would be very very costly!

    This whole discussion about revenue generation and students vs employees obviously matters much more in revenue generating sports of football and Menís basketball. How is it fair that the athletes that generate all of the revenue are not even allowed to benefit off their own likeness? The NCAA is holding onto an antiquated model and will go down to their dying breath lying, yes absolutely lying, about the concept of the student-athlete! The NCAA doesnít care about student-athletes, it cares about money and power!

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