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Thread: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

  1. #121
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by sacole13 View Post
    It was not incidental contact
    So if that is the case then why no Penalty on the Fin player. You can not have "non incidental contact" and no penalty on the Finnish player. They got robbed plan and simple.

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    I'm as sad for the Finns as anyone but the outrage over this is pretty baffling to me. I don't know how an impartial observer can look at this and not say this is goaltender interference.

    It sucks *a lot* that they had the whole celebration and thought they won and everything and then had to get back to the bench and keep playing, but I mean... I'm sorry, this is no goal, both to the letter and spirit of the rule. She got ran over trying to make a save and didn't have an opportunity to make the play. If the Americans had scored this goal everyone would agree.

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    I wonder how much outrage there would have been on this board if the Fin goal was allowed.
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    So here are my contradictory comments on the play: The US goaltender was interfered with trying to gather a rebound after making the initial save by a player that was not making a play on the puck. That could definitely be interpreted as goaltender interference and would disallow the goal. Now for the contradictory part: If it takes you that long to make a decision, I don't think you can call the evidence clear to overturn the call. They should have stayed with the call on the ice.

    All that said, it's not the fault of the players on the ice this all transpired. To say the US wasn't allowed to enjoy winning the gold medal is not fair. Were they supposed to stop playing and forfeit after the call was made? I'm guessing the US goaltender thought she was interfered with and the officials got it right...
    Last edited by spwood; 04-15-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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  5. #125
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    I find it funny that after overlooking calls they should have made against Finland, it's one of the few they did make that gets the refs raked over the coals. There were some penalties and icing calls they let go that if they had made them, they may not have been in a position to overturn the Finnish OT goal because the US might have been able to break the dam. Pfalzer getting hit from behind into the the goal post comes to mind.

    That said, it was a thrilling hockey game marred by being decided by the officials and not the players. So many great offensive sets from the USA where they did everything but score. Overall the tournament was great until this one moment.
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  6. #126
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by sacole13 View Post
    she made no effort to avoid contact, in the crease or not.
    This statement is provably wrong. Wrong because it is inside out.

    Just watched that Twitter video multiple times stopping it at various times and it is as clear as can be that Rigsby, at the last split second before contact is made, shot her left arm and shoulder out in Hirikoski's path to get the puck. And that there was enough room for Hirikoski to continue along her path while narrowly avoiding collision with Rigsby had Rigsby not lunged out in front of her. The collision was caused by Rigsby, not Hirikoski. I suggest you watch it multiple times and stop the video multiple times. And for what it's worth I think this video also shows that Hirikoski did make an effort to minimize the impact that Rigsby made unavoidable.

    (Your statement is like saying to the judge in court that you are not guilty of assault because when you tapped the assaulted person on the shoulder to get their attention that when they turned to see who was tapping them on the shoulder and you punched him in the kisser that the assaulted person did nothing to avoid your punch).

    I was left last night after several stop start viewings of my recorded version, which cannot be controlled as accurately as the twitter video, with three thoughts:

    1. As Eyeore pointed out...what is the definition of "in the crease" because, as you accurately pointed out, Rigsby's trailing leg was still in the crease, although it wouldn't have been for long.

    2. Had the collision not occurred it struck me that it might have been remotely possible for Rigsby to have been able to reach back with her glove to attempt to stop the shot that ended up in the net. However, without the collision would the puck have ended up where it did for Niemenen to have been able to get to the puck and get a shot away? Even the Twitter video does not make that clear. The puck disappears from sight for a while and makes that assessment impossible.

    3. If the call was tripping on Rigsby (and it was) and if no US player touched the puck between that time and the puck's ending up in the net...the goal should have counted...and should count.


    But the Twitter video with the better start stop capabilities renders the "in the crease" argument useless and irrelevant, in my opinion, because the collision was inarguably caused by Rigsby.

    We have the incredible advantage of multiple start stop replays...the official behind the goal line did not. The Twitter video proves that she got the tripping call on Rigsby right. She deserves praise although it was probably as clear as day to her.

    After reading the official explanation it seems to me that the "officials" and the IIHF want their cake after having devoured it. The rule book is obviously insufficient on this matter.

    It is also seeming more to me like the US should take one for the Womens Game, like Canada did, and voluntarily cede the Gold Medal to Team Finland even while the IIHF continues to devour their cake.

    The appearance of justice having been done would be accomplished and Team USA would gain another measure of respect, worldwide, further raising the profile of the Womens Game. Although the momentum of the moment will have been lost should that occur. And it might create such embarrassing pressure on the IIHF as to cause them to revisit the rule book and make some seemingly necessary changes.

    I'm not holding my breath.
    Last edited by Blackbeard; 04-15-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  7. #127
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Not knowing what goaltender interference is is a blight on both menís and womenís hockey. I agree with Blackbeard and Eeyore. Rigsby lunged for that pick and missed it. Even without contact she wasnít getting back to her net to make a save.

    Hiirikoski went hard to the net - not even through the crease - exactly as players are taught to do. She took the path the American D gave her.

    There is supposed to be a risk to getting beat on D as happened to the Americans. Apparently not. It makes the whole game pointless if goalies are allowed to abandon their crease, still canít be touched, and D donít have to play D.

    The objective observer in this case was the ref and she called it a goal. This going and staring at freeze frames for ten minutes at a time does nothing to benefit the game.

    Amazed at the grace of several Finnish players, and the restraint of the fans.

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Couple of interesting videos FWIW...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShgmz_hgGc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dleI_2ZjUNE - This one has a dude that takes his shirt off. Shame he had to put it back on
    Last edited by FiveHoleFrenzy; 04-15-2019 at 11:52 AM.
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    give the win to Finland because it's good for hockey?
    clearly, some of you are throwing reality out the window.

    Rigsby loses the puck and while reaching for it (with her left leg from the knee on down within the crease) gets run into by the Finn, thus preventing her from gathering it in. If having a leg from the knee on down is in the crease, it was interference by the Finn, if not, Finland wins. simple as that

    The ref that called tripping on Rigsby need to have their eyes checked and/or head examined. In any event go back to reefing peewee.

    It's unfortunate that the game came down to a reviewed play, but even so, they need to toss the SO out in the championship game and play 5 on 5 until somebody wins.

  10. #130
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    This statement is provably wrong. Wrong because it is inside out.

    Just watched that Twitter video multiple times stopping it at various times and it is as clear as can be that Rigsby, at the last split second before contact is made, shot her left arm and shoulder out in Hirikoski's path to get the puck. And that there was enough room for Hirikoski to continue along her path while narrowly avoiding collision with Rigsby had Rigsby not lunged out in front of her. The collision was caused by Rigsby, not Hirikoski. I suggest you watch it multiple times and stop the video multiple times. And for what it's worth I think this video also shows that Hirikoski did make an effort to minimize the impact that Rigsby made unavoidable.

    (Your statement is like saying to the judge in court that you are not guilty of assault because when you tapped the assaulted person on the shoulder to get their attention that when they turned to see who was tapping them on the shoulder and you punched him in the kisser that the assaulted person did nothing to avoid your punch).


    We have the incredible advantage of multiple start stop replays...the official behind the goal line did not. The Twitter video proves that she got the tripping call on Rigsby right. She deserves praise although it was probably as clear as day to her.

    After reading the official explanation it seems to me that the "officials" and the IIHF want their cake after having devoured it. The rule book is obviously insufficient on this matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay View Post
    Not knowing what goaltender interference is is a blight on both menís and womenís hockey. I agree with Blackbeard and Eeyore. Rigsby lunged for that pick and missed it. Even without contact she wasnít getting back to her net to make a save.

    Hiirikoski went hard to the net - not even through the crease - exactly as players are taught to do. She took the path the American D gave her.

    There is supposed to be a risk to getting beat on D as happened to the Americans. Apparently not. It makes the whole game pointless if goalies are allowed to abandon their crease, still canít be touched, and D donít have to play D.

    The objective observer in this case was the ref and she called it a goal. This going and staring at freeze frames for ten minutes at a time does nothing to benefit the game.

    Amazed at the grace of several Finnish players, and the restraint of the fans.
    Looked to me like the offensive player was skating away from the goaltender and towards the puck. The rulebook does not address under rule 150, but cannot mean, that an offensive player does not have the right to go after a loose puck, that is outside the goal crease no less. Just because the goaltender lunges towards it exactly when the offensive player arrives?

    This does not address this issue exactly but comes pretty darn close:
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...e-nhl-playoffs

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    I was 'away' for the weekend, and heard nothing at all about the game, etc. But FWIW, this is what I see on the videos I've seen this morning:

    Rigsby is entirely out of her crease when contacted by the Finn skater; she has already had her chance to cover the puck, and it has gotten away from her by the time the contact is made (though without the contact, she might have been able to get it on a second try).the ref behind the goal and to Rigsby's right raises her hand to call a penalty and then signals goal. At no time, as far as I can see, does any US player 'play the puck'. So if the upcoming penalty is going to be on Rigs, no reason for a whistle to stop play; play continues, and goal is scored.

    Finn goal. No question at all. Finn goal.

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post

    Rigsby is entirely out of her crease when contacted by the Finn skater
    did you see the overhead shot? the overhead view is the best of what happened, the collision (regardless of who you want to say was responsible for it) shows that's what took her completely out of the crease

    does a leg in the crease constitute "being in the crease?
    Last edited by pokechecker; 04-15-2019 at 12:21 PM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    It is also seeming more to me like the US should take one for the Womens Game, like Canada did, and voluntarily cede the Gold Medal to Team Finland even while the IIHF continues to devour their cake.
    Some of you folks are out of your gourd

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    does a leg in the crease constitute "being in the crease?
    Does a foot maybe still above the crease but no longer in contact with the ice constitute "being in the crease"? Because Rigs' foot/skate/leg is no longer in contact with the ice by the time contact comes.

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    This is one screwy deal. I was watching on the dvr, they score in OT, I put my head down for a few seconds, ponder that Ratty has my vote for most disliked rodent of all time, then hit DELETE. Then I go on Twitter half an hour later and find out the US won!?!!?? And Pankowski scored in the shootout, on Ratty?!! Freaking awesome!

    These frame by frame reviews are killing sports. All of them. All of these reviews need to be eliminated. All of them. It's obvious that the more they try to get right, it just increases the mistakes, it doesn't fix anything. Plus there are always people who see it differently, even in slow motion and freeze frame. Sports existed just fine before video replay. Get rid of it.

    I've seen a lot of hockey over my time, my reaction in the moment was that the Fins won. I had no inkling of a problem. Rigsby tried to cover it, the puck went in front of the net, they scored.

    I hate the 4 on 4 OT in this competition. It had zero flow in the O zone. When they went 4 on 4 all the chemistry was blown up. The extra space was negated by the fact that there was no one in front of the net to take a pass and shoot. It's like the players didn't have much of a clue how to play it.

    I thought Rigsby played very well, I love that she stayed up in the high shots (not every shot was in instant butterfly), though Tapani got one buy her, a great shot. When UW played her, she was as feared an offensive force as any.
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post

    These frame by frame reviews are killing sports. All of them. All of these reviews need to be eliminated. All of them. It's obvious that the more they try to get right, it just increases the mistakes, it doesn't fix anything. Plus there are always people who see it differently, even in slow motion and freeze frame. Sports existed just fine before video replay. Get rid of it.

    I've seen a lot of hockey over my time, my reaction in the moment was that the Fins won. I had no inkling of a problem. Rigsby tried to cover it, the puck went in front of the net, they scored.
    .
    My opinion, although I don't know if anybody here agrees with me, is these frame by frame reviews are killing sports. All of them. All of these reviews need to be eliminated. All of them. It's obvious that the more they try to get right, it just increases the mistakes, it doesn't fix anything. Plus there are always people who see it differently, even in slow motion and freeze frame. Sports existed just fine before video replay. Get rid of it.

    (Truth is maybe this position is slightly stronger than mine-but very well said )

    I've seen a lot of hockey over my time, my reaction in the moment was that the Fins won. I had no inkling of a problem. Rigsby tried to cover it, the puck went in front of the net, they scored.

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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    Some of you folks are out of your gourd
    Haha! I knew that would draw some comments.

    But with the benefit of that Twitter video (and thanks to that poster) this whole thing stinks badly and is a blight on the Womens Game. It couldn't smell any worse as far as optics are concerned. The story obviously has legs but just the wrong kind.

    Don't recall seeing an overhead view of it that Pokechecker referred to, unless I thought it was inconclusive and forgot about it. Maybe he or someone else can post that view here to see if it changes perceptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    Haha! I knew that would draw some comments.

    But with the benefit of that Twitter video (and thanks to that poster) this whole thing stinks badly and is a blight on the Womens Game. It couldn't smell any worse as far as optics are concerned. The story obviously has legs but just the wrong kind.

    Don't recall seeing an overhead view of it that Pokechecker referred to, unless I thought it was inconclusive and forgot about it. Maybe he or someone else can post that view here to see if it changes perceptions.
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  19. #139
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    This statement is provably wrong. Wrong because it is inside out.

    Just watched that Twitter video multiple times stopping it at various times and it is as clear as can be that Rigsby, at the last split second before contact is made, shot her left arm and shoulder out in Hirikoski's path to get the puck. And that there was enough room for Hirikoski to continue along her path while narrowly avoiding collision with Rigsby had Rigsby not lunged out in front of her. The collision was caused by Rigsby, not Hirikoski. I suggest you watch it multiple times and stop the video multiple times. And for what it's worth I think this video also shows that Hirikoski did make an effort to minimize the impact that Rigsby made unavoidable.

    (Your statement is like saying to the judge in court that you are not guilty of assault because when you tapped the assaulted person on the shoulder to get their attention that when they turned to see who was tapping them on the shoulder and you punched him in the kisser that the assaulted person did nothing to avoid your punch).

    I was left last night after several stop start viewings of my recorded version, which cannot be controlled as accurately as the twitter video, with three thoughts:

    1. As Eyeore pointed out...what is the definition of "in the crease" because, as you accurately pointed out, Rigsby's trailing leg was still in the crease, although it wouldn't have been for long.

    2. Had the collision not occurred it struck me that it might have been remotely possible for Rigsby to have been able to reach back with her glove to attempt to stop the shot that ended up in the net. However, without the collision would the puck have ended up where it did for Niemenen to have been able to get to the puck and get a shot away? Even the Twitter video does not make that clear. The puck disappears from sight for a while and makes that assessment impossible.

    3. If the call was tripping on Rigsby (and it was) and if no US player touched the puck between that time and the puck's ending up in the net...the goal should have counted...and should count.


    But the Twitter video with the better start stop capabilities renders the "in the crease" argument useless and irrelevant, in my opinion, because the collision was inarguably caused by Rigsby.

    We have the incredible advantage of multiple start stop replays...the official behind the goal line did not. The Twitter video proves that she got the tripping call on Rigsby right. She deserves praise although it was probably as clear as day to her.

    After reading the official explanation it seems to me that the "officials" and the IIHF want their cake after having devoured it. The rule book is obviously insufficient on this matter.

    It is also seeming more to me like the US should take one for the Womens Game, like Canada did, and voluntarily cede the Gold Medal to Team Finland even while the IIHF continues to devour their cake.

    The appearance of justice having been done would be accomplished and Team USA would gain another measure of respect, worldwide, further raising the profile of the Womens Game. Although the momentum of the moment will have been lost should that occur. And it might create such embarrassing pressure on the IIHF as to cause them to revisit the rule book and make some seemingly necessary changes.

    I'm not holding my breath.
    Provably??? See your entire diatribe becomes meaningless with your horrible English.
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  20. #140
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    Re: 2019 IIHF Women's Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    give the win to Finland because it's good for hockey?
    clearly, some of you are throwing reality out the window.

    Rigsby loses the puck and while reaching for it (with her left leg from the knee on down within the crease) gets run into by the Finn, thus preventing her from gathering it in. If having a leg from the knee on down is in the crease, it was interference by the Finn, if not, Finland wins. simple as that

    The ref that called tripping on Rigsby need to have their eyes checked and/or head examined. In any event go back to reefing peewee.

    It's unfortunate that the game came down to a reviewed play, but even so, they need to toss the SO out in the championship game and play 5 on 5 until somebody wins.
    if this were a feel good sport we would not keep score........................
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