Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

[ticapnews]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Update

Attendance in Manchester: 5033 (Friday)
Attendance in Manchester: 5679 (Saturday)
2-day total: 10712

Attendance in Fargo: 4220 (Friday)
Attendance in Fargo: 4248 (Saturday)
2-day total: 8468

Attendance in Providence: 7180 (Saturday)
Attendance in Providence: 5231 (Sunday)
2-day total: 12411

Attendance in Allentown: 3763 (Saturday)
Attendance in Allentown: (Sunday)
2-day total:


Given the abject failure of the Providence regional I would definitely expect the NC$$ to rethink its strategy of putting Providence College there.

[chickod]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Update

Attendance in Manchester: 5033 (Friday)
Attendance in Manchester: 5679 (Saturday)
2-day total: 10712

Attendance in Fargo: 4220 (Friday)
Attendance in Fargo: 4248 (Saturday)
2-day total: 8468

Attendance in Providence: 7180 (Saturday)
Attendance in Providence: 5231 (Sunday)
2-day total: 12411

Attendance in Allentown: 3763 (Saturday)
Attendance in Allentown: (Sunday)
2-day total:


Given the abject failure of the Providence regional I would definitely expect the NC$$ to rethink its strategy of putting Providence College there.

Don't you think that's a little harsh? If the regional with the largest attendance is an "abject failure," what do you say about the others? And if you say "But Providence was playing in their hometown," no comment about the "great" fans in North Dakota who turned out in gigantic droves? What about the millions of fans who showed up from the "State of Hockey" the next state over? Then there's eight-time champion Denver with their swarm of fans - so many I heard they had to turn thousands of them away. Oh, wait... (Side note, when they won in Boston in 2004 they brought about 200...I was sitting right next to them)

Providence is a smaller school. It's not Enormous State U (as Tank McNamara would say - for those of you young ones, don't worry about it). Ohio State, who has an enrollment of one billion, brought about 100 fans. When are we going to get it that it's a niche sport? IT'S JUST NOT AS POPULAR AS YOU THINK. There had to be over 10,000 (I don't know what Pepsi Arena in Albany holds, but I seem to remember around 10,000 or so when I went to the Frozen Four there in 2001) at the Women's Basketball Regional game between Louisville and UConn this afternoon. If you want full arenas, play at smaller venues. The only times I have gone to all four rounds (league quarterfinals, semi-finals/finals, NCAA regionals and Frozen Four was when my team was in it). I probably spend over $2500 so my wife and I could go in 2009. And we didn't even have to fly ONCE. We drove to Boston, Manchester and Washington, DC. What do you think it costs when you have to fly three weeks out of four? I don't think a lot of people are going to do that. This isn't basketball. The fan bases just aren't out there. If my team's not there, I can sit home and watch every game from the comfort of my media room with my TV and my computer.

We've had this discussion for years now. You seem to almost take satisfaction from this...

[state of hockey]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

I want to look away, but I can't look away.

[ticapnews]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Don't you think that's a little harsh?

[chickod]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

I don’t really get the point (or the sarcasm), actually. The arena was 42% full (or 58% empty). I mean, I get it that you’re probably poking the people who complained that Providence was essentially getting a “home” game. But none of these numbers are anything to write home about.

[RPI fan 4 life]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Chickod,
FYI, Times Union Center (née Knickerbocker Arena, then Pepsi Arena) in Albany seats just under 14,000 for hockey and about 17,000 for bouncyball.
I don’t know if they bid for any future hockey Regionals. They have Men’s BB 1st and 2nd Rounds there next year. But the last time they had one [hockey) there, it was on Easter weekend. Not good for attendance.

[ticapnews]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

I don’t really get the point (or the sarcasm), actually. The arena was 42% full (or 58% empty). I mean, I get it that you’re probably poking the people who complained that Providence was essentially getting a “home” game. But none of these numbers are anything to write home about.

The attendance numbers rarely are. However, the Providence regional had the highest attendance and will easily make the NCAA the most money. Still waiting for the numbers from Allentown, but it appears the first day at Providence will be higher than both days combined in Allentown. One of the big reasons is that PC was placed there. The NCAA isn't going to change the system anytime soon.

[chickod]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

The attendance numbers rarely are. However, the Providence regional had the highest attendance and will easily make the NCAA the most money. Still waiting for the numbers from Allentown, but it appears the first day at Providence will be higher than both days combined in Allentown. One of the big reasons is that PC was placed there. The NCAA isn't going to change the system anytime soon.

I have no problem with Providence playing there. I have no problem with North Dakota in Fargo. I have no problem with Minnesota in St. Paul. If anybody doesn't like it, motivate your fan base.

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

This was exactly how the tournament was set up from the mid 80s until 1991, except with 12 teams instead of 16.

Not quite. For 4 years, 1988-91, the NCAA had the first two rounds of the 12 team tournament on campus sites, but in 1988 they were two game, total goal series, with it being best of three for 1989-91. In 1988 seven of the eight series were won by the home teams. Over the next three years the home teams went 19-5 for a 0.791 winning percentage and the home teams went 14-2 for a 0.875 winning percentage in the quarterfinals, with both road teams that won those series having hosted the weekend before.

Since switching to neutral sites the lower seeds have fared better. From 1992-2002 the higher seed went 26-18 for a 0.591 winning percentage in the first round games and the bye teams went 29-15 for a 0.659 winning percentage in the quarterfinal games, for an overall record of 55-33 for a 0.625 winning percentage. From 2003-19 the higher seed has gone 85-51 for a 0.625 winning percentage in the first round and 48-20 for a 0.706 winning percentage, for an overall record of 133-71 for a 0.652 winning percentage.

Sean

[John J. MacInnes]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Not quite. For 4 years, 1988-91, the NCAA had the first two rounds of the 12 team tournament on campus sites, but in 1988 they were two game, total goal series, with it being best of three for 1989-91. In 1988 seven of the eight series were won by the home teams. Over the next three years the home teams went 19-5 for a 0.791 winning percentage and the home teams went 14-2 for a 0.875 winning percentage in the quarterfinals, with both road teams that won those series having hosted the weekend before.

Since switching to neutral sites the lower seeds have fared better. From 1992-2002 the higher seed went 26-18 for a 0.591 winning percentage in the first round games and the bye teams went 29-15 for a 0.659 winning percentage in the quarterfinal games, for an overall record of 55-33 for a 0.625 winning percentage. From 2003-19 the higher seed has gone 85-51 for a 0.625 winning percentage in the first round and 48-20 for a 0.706 winning percentage, for an overall record of 133-71 for a 0.652 winning percentage.

Sean

All true Sean, and you're right. I should have said that the spirit of that setup was exactly what was being proposed, with the total goal/best of 3 adjustment.

I think you might be the best person to ask about the records of host teams in their own barns (or in the case of PC, their own cities) in the era of "neutral" site regionals since 1992.

[LTsatch]

I thought Fairfield usually bids with Yale to keep Sacred Heart out of it. I know that bid usually has multiple schools involved. Got to think Worcester is bidding

It was announced a while ago and is true. The Fairfield thing never made sense to me, unless they were exploring adding D-1 hockey. Bridgeport is Fairfield’s home BBall court, and with SHU moving in there last year it must have made more sense to have the hockey school host.

[LTsatch]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

2/18/19 New Haven Register
BRIDGEPORT BIDDING
Yale and Sacred Heart submitted a joint bid to bring the NCAA East Regional to Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport for 2020 and 2021.
Bridgeport previously played host to five regionals from 2009 to 2018, with Yale and Fairfield coordinating the events. The venue sold out in 2009, drawing 8,478 to both games, and came close to selling out again in 2011. Regionals in Bridgeport have never dipped below 5,000.
The NCAA deadline to submit bids for hockey regionals in 2020, 2021 and 2022 was earlier this month. Webster Bank Arena is hosting a women’s basketball regional in 2022, which is why Yale and Sacred Heart are seeking only two of the three years in the cycle.
Bridgeport could be awarded a regional in both years, as its played host in consecutive years before (2011 and 2012). Bridgeport, Providence, Worcester, Manchester (N.H.) and Albany have been the site of every East and Northeast regional since 2008.

[The Zlax45]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

2/18/19 New Haven Register
BRIDGEPORT BIDDING
Yale and Sacred Heart submitted a joint bid to bring the NCAA East Regional to Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport for 2020 and 2021.
Bridgeport previously played host to five regionals from 2009 to 2018, with Yale and Fairfield coordinating the events. The venue sold out in 2009, drawing 8,478 to both games, and came close to selling out again in 2011. Regionals in Bridgeport have never dipped below 5,000.
The NCAA deadline to submit bids for hockey regionals in 2020, 2021 and 2022 was earlier this month. Webster Bank Arena is hosting a women’s basketball regional in 2022, which is why Yale and Sacred Heart are seeking only two of the three years in the cycle.
Bridgeport could be awarded a regional in both years, as its played host in consecutive years before (2011 and 2012). Bridgeport, Providence, Worcester, Manchester (N.H.) and Albany have been the site of every East and Northeast regional since 2008.

So you were right...I was just remembering the past ;-)

[ticapnews]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

Final Attendance Numbers

Attendance in Manchester: 5033 (Friday)
Attendance in Manchester: 5679 (Saturday)
2-day total: 10712

Attendance in Fargo: 4220 (Friday)
Attendance in Fargo: 4248 (Saturday)
2-day total: 8468

Attendance in Providence: 7180 (Saturday)
Attendance in Providence: 5231 (Sunday)
2-day total: 12411

Attendance in Allentown: 3763 (Saturday)
Attendance in Allentown: 3561 (Sunday)
2-day total: 7324

Total Attendance: 38915

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed

I have no problem with Providence playing there. I have no problem with North Dakota in Fargo. I have no problem with Minnesota in St. Paul. If anybody doesn't like it, motivate your fan base.

Yes, but some fans here have a problem with Providence getting to stay home when they did not host. And some other don't think that any lower seed should be allowed to play in the regional closest to them as it is "not fair to the higher seed". However, many fans lament the low regional attendance which the past few years they have been able to boost in Providence by placing PC there. I recall 2009 when BU was rewarded for being the number one overall seed by getting to play in Manchester where UNH was sent (as host), had to play #15 OSU and not #16 BSU (which turned out to be a good thing), and play the late game as UNH vs UND got the early game, one which went into overtime. And yet, somehow, BU was able to beat OSU and then UNH in a very unfriendly arena.

PC has been placed in Providence as a #4 seed the last three times it has been there and they have gone 4-1, losing to Harvard 2 years ago in the first round. The other three years they have been in Bridgeport twice, going 2-2, winning both semifinal games (as a #2 and #3 seed) and losing both finals (to the #1 seed) and Worcester once, losing the semifinal as the #1 seed.

In looking at where all #68 number four seed have been placed since 2003 I found that four other times a #4 seed was place in the closest regional and only once was the team also the host: 2003, Wayne State vs #2 overall CC at Ann Arbor; 2011 UNH (host) vs #4 overall Miami at Manchester; 2018 BU vs #3 overall Cornell at Worcester; and 2018 Princeton vs #4 overall seed OSU at Allentown. I don't seem to recall any complaints about BU or Princeton last year (maybe I missed them). The issue with PC seems to they have been placed in Providence three of the last five years and it is the same city they are in, not just close by.

Sean

P.S. Maybe Coach Leaman knows what he is doing since all three times PC has been placed in the Providence regional they have lost their Hockey East quarterfinal round series .