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Thread: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Season?

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    ANY? What about David Pastrnak?
    I didn't say "ANY." I said "MANY." (I didn't call you "boy" - I called you "Roy")

    On the other hand, we COULD go through a litany of names: Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Ryan Donato...............

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    I didn't say "ANY." I said "MANY." (I didn't call you "boy" - I called you "Roy")

    On the other hand, we COULD go through a litany of names: Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Ryan Donato...............
    Maybe your Charlie Coyle will the B's to the promised land?

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Maybe your Charlie Coyle will the B's to the promised land?
    Yeah, he's starting out like the person about whom we (at BU) said "Why is HE leaving early?" I'll reserve judgment for now...

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    I didn't say "ANY." I said "MANY." (I didn't call you "boy" - I called you "Roy")

    On the other hand, we COULD go through a litany of names: Joe Thornton, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Ryan Donato...............
    … Reggie Leach, Bernie Parent, Ivan Boldirev (sp?) … it's not like this just started yesterday ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    … Reggie Leach, Bernie Parent, Ivan Boldirev (sp?) … it's not like this just started yesterday ...
    B's protected Cheevers and exposed Johnston and Parent in the 1966/1967 expansion draft, and the Flyers wisely chose Parent over Johnston. But, Cheevers had a long successful NHL career as did Parent, after they both began with the B's in 1965/1966.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    B's protected Cheevers and exposed Johnston and Parent in the 1966/1967 expansion draft, and the Flyers wisely chose Parent over Johnston. But, Cheevers had a long successful NHL career as did Parent, after they both began with the B's in 1965/1966.
    The Flyers were pretty shrewd operators in the early days of their NHL existence. They were the first outside of the Original Six to win a Cup, and to build a sustainably competitive organization. Sure, Scotty Bowman's Blues made the SCF's the first three years of their existence, but that was by taking the "veterans and retreads" approach, and emerging as the best of the six expansion teams who were all grouped into the same division, guaranteeing one of them would make it to the Cup Finals.

    Philly was more patient, and they were rewarded for that. Another fleecing of the B's happened when they got Rick MacLeish (who had been a 4th overall pick in 1970, I think?) in a three-way deal with Toronto, which netted Mike "Shaky" Walton to the Bruins. Walton was acquired primarily because he was FOBO (Friend Of Bobby Orr - actually a business partner in their hockey school), and he was a decent if inconsistent NHL player. MacLeish, of course, would go on to become a 50 goal scorer, and got the ultimate revenge in scoring the only goal in the 1-0 1974 SCF Game Six finale. Parent got the Conn Smythe with a 30 save shutout, in what turned out to be Orr's last legitimate shot at another Cup.

    I was a HUGE B's fan back then - I mean, who up here wasn't at the time - but I was probably an even bigger Bobby Orr fan, so when he was allowed to leave town (and not knowing the behind-the-scenes travesty that was Alan Eagleson until years later), that was the end for me and the B's. DRW were my "second team" since the Gordie Howe days, so I jumped on board with them, even with Howe & Sons playing in the WHA by then.
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    I was a HUGE B's fan back then - I mean, who up here wasn't at the time - but I was probably an even bigger Bobby Orr fan, so when he was allowed to leave town (and not knowing the behind-the-scenes travesty that was Alan Eagleson until years later), that was the end for me and the B's. DRW were my "second team" since the Gordie Howe days, so I jumped on board with them, even with Howe & Sons playing in the WHA by then.
    Always wondered what the deal with the Red Wings was...now I know. But it's Ok to "forgive" the Bruins...after all, it wasn't THEM. It was that (expletive deleted) Eagleson. He fleeced a humble, honest unassuming person. Orr was the perfect "target" for a guy like that to get initiated. He would never have suspected anything and was, I would have to say, pretty gullible. It's great to be trusting, but incidents like that one make me believe that it's not a smart thing to do.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    Always wondered what the deal with the Red Wings was...now I know. But it's Ok to "forgive" the Bruins...after all, it wasn't THEM. It was that (expletive deleted) Eagleson. He fleeced a humble, honest unassuming person. Orr was the perfect "target" for a guy like that to get initiated. He would never have suspected anything and was, I would have to say, pretty gullible. It's great to be trusting, but incidents like that one make me believe that it's not a smart thing to do.
    It was a different time back then. Agents had really just begun to become prominent, with the first few literally a couple of years before Orr's arrival in Boston. I think it was Bob Woolf (sp?) in the Boston area who first represented a Red Sox pitcher named Earl Wilson in a contract negotiation in the mid-'60's, and parlayed it into being the first prominent full-time sports agent. Eagleson crapped on Orr financially, for sure, but he also crapped big-time on the NHLPA, and no doubt it was Orr's representation that got him that post. So the NHLPA membership probably resented the by-then-retired Orr for his guilt by association, until it became blatantly obvious that Eagleson had defrauded Orr to the tune of a 20% ownership stake in the B's.



    I'm not sure how much an NHL franchise is worth these days, but 20% of an Original Six team has got to be at least knocking on the door of a nine-figure sum. Orr is hardly starving these days, and his work since that travesty has done much to ensure that no one falls into the same traps he fell into. But for a guy who was THE most transformative athlete in Boston sports history, to only exist on the fringes of the franchise he himself transformed from the outhouse to the penthouse two generations ago, still strikes me as kind of sad. That whole "Bib Bad Bruins" team, they were rock stars in their town, but when is the last time you ever saw the organization pull out all the stops to celebrate the likes of Orr, Esposito, Cheevers or even Sanderson??



    There is a parallel with Gordie Howe, whom I believe Orr considered his hockey idol. The recent passing of former "Production Line" linemate Ted Lindsay saw the resurfacing of old stories about Lindsay's role in first trying (unsuccessfully) to unionize the NHL players in the late '50's. The Norris family who owned the dynastic Red Wings of the time would take advantage of Howe's financial naivete to set the ceiling for their salary structure, and use his modest salary to "cap" out the rest of the team under Howe. Lindsay figured this out, which got him traded out of Detroit, and in the end Howe resisted, convincing his teammates to scuttle the union effort. That frosted a great team, an historic line, and put their relationship on ice for several years. Howe eventually figured out he's been hosed, largely through wife Colleen's efforts, and he returned to play a couple years after he retired from DRW to cash in with his kids in Houston of the WHA.

    One thing the Wings have over the B's is they've since laid out the red carpet to the royalty (and not-quite-royalty) among their alumni. By the time Mike Ilitch bought the Wings in the '80's they were the "Dead Wings" and no one cared, but he was a fan and spent like a fan, took chances with risky strategies (i.e. heavy recruitment in Europe before it was a "thing", and dicey activity behind the old Iron Curtain), and it all paid off in the end. And he went out of his way to bring back guys like Lindsay and Howe (amongst others) from the dynastic teams in the '50's (sadly, several like Terry Sawchuk had passed by then), who were regular visitors and attendees at DRW games in their later years. Lindsay was omnipresent up until his recent death.

    But yeah, guys like Orr and Howe were the last vestiges of a time when sports agents and players unions were still new to the scene, and both paid a price at different times - in different ways - for getting caught out for their naivete. It's trite but true to say those were simpler times. It's a good thing players are no longer exploited like they were back in those days, but as a kid who grew up before the financial part of the games were so publicized, there are aspects of the old days - when all that really mattered as a fan was what happened on the ice, and everything else was just white noise - that I still miss. And it's one of the reasons why I've gravitated more and more to college hockey (and appreciate those "four year" players) as a result. JMHO.
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    It was a different time back then. Agents had really just begun to become prominent, with the first few literally a couple of years before Orr's arrival in Boston. I think it was Bob Woolf (sp?) in the Boston area who first represented a Red Sox pitcher named Earl Wilson in a contract negotiation in the mid-'60's, and parlayed it into being the first prominent full-time sports agent. Eagleson crapped on Orr financially, for sure, but he also crapped big-time on the NHLPA, and no doubt it was Orr's representation that got him that post. So the NHLPA membership probably resented the by-then-retired Orr for his guilt by association, until it became blatantly obvious that Eagleson had defrauded Orr to the tune of a 20% ownership stake in the B's.
    Eagleson forgot rule one of "defrauding" someone is to hide the facts. The days before Orr signed with Chicago he was all over the press telling the world Boston had offered an ownership stake. here's the Boston Globe:
    What Bruins offered Orr: Here is a somewhat simplified rundown on the contract proposals offered to Bobby Orr by the Bruins owners during the past season, according to Orr's attorney. Alan Eagleson: ,' August $3.8 million for 10 years, with 18.6 percent of club ownership or payment of $P2n.000 on June 15, 1980. Late September or early October (after Sept. 21 knee operation) $2.4 million for five years, aeain with provision for 18.6 ownership or $925,000 payment. December (following Nov. 29 knee operation) $1.75 million for five years.
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/439796519/

    With Eagleson' fall from grace it is easy to paint him as the scapegoat for Orr's leaving Boston.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 04-11-2019 at 09:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Eagleson forgot rule one of "defrauding" someone is to hide the facts. The days before Orr signed with Chicago he was all over the press telling the world Boston had offered an ownership stake. here's the Boston Globe:


    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/439796519/

    With Eagleson' fall from grace it is easy to paint him as the scapegoat for Orr's leaving Boston.
    Well he was the scapegoat because he did, in fact, not disclose the Bruins offer to his client. One of the reasons he was disbarred. Bobby Orr is not one to shave the truth and he talks about Eagelson at length in his book. All water over the dam now. Orr has climbed on to the pedestal he so richly deserves, Eagelson has earned the disgrace he has been given and the Bruins have moved on. Am still not a fan of the Jacobs but I will say that the salary cap era has helped them immensely.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    Am still not a fan of the Jacobs but I will say that the salary cap era has helped them immensely.
    Yes it has. Built-in excuse to limit their spending. Right in the Jacobs' wheelhouse ...
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    It was a different time back then. Agents had really just begun to become prominent, with the first few literally a couple of years before Orr's arrival in Boston. I think it was Bob Woolf (sp?) in the Boston area who first represented a Red Sox pitcher named Earl Wilson in a contract negotiation in the mid-'60's, and parlayed it into being the first prominent full-time sports agent. Eagleson crapped on Orr financially, for sure, but he also crapped big-time on the NHLPA, and no doubt it was Orr's representation that got him that post. So the NHLPA membership probably resented the by-then-retired Orr for his guilt by association, until it became blatantly obvious that Eagleson had defrauded Orr to the tune of a 20% ownership stake in the B's.



    I'm not sure how much an NHL franchise is worth these days, but 20% of an Original Six team has got to be at least knocking on the door of a nine-figure sum. Orr is hardly starving these days, and his work since that travesty has done much to ensure that no one falls into the same traps he fell into. But for a guy who was THE most transformative athlete in Boston sports history, to only exist on the fringes of the franchise he himself transformed from the outhouse to the penthouse two generations ago, still strikes me as kind of sad. That whole "Bib Bad Bruins" team, they were rock stars in their town, but when is the last time you ever saw the organization pull out all the stops to celebrate the likes of Orr, Esposito, Cheevers or even Sanderson??



    There is a parallel with Gordie Howe, whom I believe Orr considered his hockey idol. The recent passing of former "Production Line" linemate Ted Lindsay saw the resurfacing of old stories about Lindsay's role in first trying (unsuccessfully) to unionize the NHL players in the late '50's. The Norris family who owned the dynastic Red Wings of the time would take advantage of Howe's financial naivete to set the ceiling for their salary structure, and use his modest salary to "cap" out the rest of the team under Howe. Lindsay figured this out, which got him traded out of Detroit, and in the end Howe resisted, convincing his teammates to scuttle the union effort. That frosted a great team, an historic line, and put their relationship on ice for several years. Howe eventually figured out he's been hosed, largely through wife Colleen's efforts, and he returned to play a couple years after he retired from DRW to cash in with his kids in Houston of the WHA.

    One thing the Wings have over the B's is they've since laid out the red carpet to the royalty (and not-quite-royalty) among their alumni. By the time Mike Ilitch bought the Wings in the '80's they were the "Dead Wings" and no one cared, but he was a fan and spent like a fan, took chances with risky strategies (i.e. heavy recruitment in Europe before it was a "thing", and dicey activity behind the old Iron Curtain), and it all paid off in the end. And he went out of his way to bring back guys like Lindsay and Howe (amongst others) from the dynastic teams in the '50's (sadly, several like Terry Sawchuk had passed by then), who were regular visitors and attendees at DRW games in their later years. Lindsay was omnipresent up until his recent death.

    But yeah, guys like Orr and Howe were the last vestiges of a time when sports agents and players unions were still new to the scene, and both paid a price at different times - in different ways - for getting caught out for their naivete. It's trite but true to say those were simpler times. It's a good thing players are no longer exploited like they were back in those days, but as a kid who grew up before the financial part of the games were so publicized, there are aspects of the old days - when all that really mattered as a fan was what happened on the ice, and everything else was just white noise - that I still miss. And it's one of the reasons why I've gravitated more and more to college hockey (and appreciate those "four year" players) as a result. JMHO.
    Nice summary, I think.

    Mr. Hockey asked Bobby Orr to write the forward to his autobiography, "Mr. Hockey, My Story" (G.P. Putnam's Sons, NY, 2014), which began as follows: "Many times over the years, I have been asked who I consider to be the greatest hockey player of all time. My answer has never changed -- it is Gordie Howe. And so, being asked to write a foreword for Gordie Howe's memoir is a great honor for me." On the back of the dust jacket appear some paragraphs by the Great One, Wayne Gretzky, with the last paragraph as follows: "You can never, ever replace Gordie Howe -- the greatest player ever, the best idol a young player could ever look up to, but most of all the nicest man I have ever met!"

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    On another subject....

    How about those #1-seeded Lightning jumping out to a 3-0 lead in Game 1 of their playoff series vs. the lowly Blue Jackets! I mean, there’s no possible way anyone would see that as anything other than an unassailable advantage.... is there? Right? Am I crazy?

    😁

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcatdc View Post
    On another subject....

    How about those #1-seeded Lightning jumping out to a 3-0 lead in Game 1 of their playoff series vs. the lowly Blue Jackets! I mean, there’s no possible way anyone would see that as anything other than an unassailable advantage.... is there? Right? Am I crazy?

    😁
    Absolutely no excuse for blowing a three goal lead by a team as good as the Lightning during regular season. In contrast, UNH blowing a three goal lead after their mediocre regular season is not nearly as alarming, for me anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Absolutely no excuse for blowing a three goal lead by a team as good as the Lightning during regular season. In contrast, UNH blowing a three goal lead after their mediocre regular season is not nearly as alarming, for me anyway.
    Fell right into that one, Snively. My point EXACTLY. I guess my sarcasm meter wasn’t turned up high enough!
    Last edited by wildcatdc; 04-12-2019 at 03:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcatdc View Post
    Fell right into that one, Snively. My point EXACTLY. I guess my sarcasm meter wasn’t turned up high enough!
    Oh, yes, I saw what you were doing there. But, the Minutewagon did have me worried late in their semifinals game last night.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    How about those #2 seeded Bruins not showing up?

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Don't look now but that team that you know who thought UNH should get by in the QF's is playing for an NC tomorrow night!!

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    Don't look now but that team that you know who thought UNH should get by in the QF's is playing for an NC tomorrow night!!
    There is some irony in Umile's downfall being his worldview that a team's future is based on its history (why he quit working after late 2000s, because everything was on autopilot), and the belief that U.Mass's future was based on its poor history.

    We've witnessed first hand the folly of that belief that history means anything.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2019 Offseason - How Much Progress Did We Really Make This Past Seas

    I am so jealous of UMass Hockey right now. Not just their success but the way they play the game. They are so fast and so skilled, aggressively attacking at all times - from all four lines and from the back end to the front. That PP goal into a gaping net was vintage UNH PP from the late 90's. I'll say it again, they're everything UNH was (maybe more before the weekend is over) and everything UNH is capable of being again with the right leadership. I sure hope that this new regime works out at UNH - otherwise, I will always have a very difficult time separating the fact that UNH decided against a national search and for a three-year victory lap/coaching transition ONE YEAR PRIOR to UMass hiring Carvel...
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