All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

[Handyman]

This is a place to continue the discussion from the candidates thread. I would rather not bog that thread down with our discussion which I am finding very interesting.

[Handyman]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

Wyoming has one electoral vote for roughly every 150,000 people. California has one electoral vote for every 500,000 people. Essentially, the average Wyoming voter has 3.5 times the power of a California voter in the EV.

In the Senate, the difference is starker. A Wyoming voter is equal to 66 California voters.

I get that but again as is Wyoming has zero say as a state in who is President. California has way more influence.

One thing that would happen though is the minority party in a state would be more motivated whether you apportioned votes or abolished the EC. Turnout could be higher which is needed badly.

Note: I am enjoying this conversation my be adversarial is not personal or out of anger just like being engaged in these types of discussions.

[trixR4kids]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

The point is that their power is disproportionate to the amount of people they have and the senate is fundamentally undemocratic.

[Handyman]

The point is that their power is disproportionate to the amount of people they have and the senate is fundamentally undemocratic.

Right but we aren't democratic by nature and never will be. We are a representative form of government.

[joecct]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

So, if the popular vote is 55-45 in favor of Candidate A, but my state is 90-10 for B, under the popular vote proposal, the will of 90% of the voters is ignored and A gets the EVs?

The proposal is constitutional, just beware of the law of unintended consequences.

I leave you now to your Bobble Head convention.

[Handyman]

So, if the popular vote is 55-45 in favor of Candidate A, but my state is 90-10 for B, under the popular vote proposal, the will of 90% of the voters is ignored and A gets the EVs?

The proposal is constitutional, just beware of the law of unintended consequences.

Well I would think it would be up to the state how they give out votes. If your state is 90-10 then I would think most or all would go to B.

Popular vote doesn't over rule the EC in state. State still decides who they vote for. Unless the EC is abolished in which case then every vote is independent.

[Kepler]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

Moved from the other thread: the inevitable death of the Electoral College:

Well, it obviously will be, eventually. The long trend in American political history is towards greater democracy and equality. We've been ironing out both Constitutional and statutory inequalities for the last 240 years -- privileges accorded the wealthy, whites, men, whites again have fallen, and we will eventually get rid of privileges given to rural voters for a variety of historical and cultural reasons (slavery, Jeffersonian Utopian primitivism, racism).

The Electoral College falls on the number line somewhere beyond lynchings, poll taxes, and voter id, but it's there for the same purposes and someday we will get rid of it. And that "someday" will be the moment Texas goes blue which, given Yankee techie migration there, Messicans, and the subsequent improvement in both education and overall intelligence, is slated for about 25 years from now.

There is one way to save the EC without instituting a full blown South African apartheid state: split states up into 1 million pop unit states. Create 250 more states out of the big states. Then the effect of the silly states like ND and WY will be completely swamped. MT will have the electoral clout of Brooklyn, as it ought.

[sagard]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

Well, it obviously will be, eventually. The long trend in American political history is towards greater democracy and equality. We've been ironing out both Constitutional and statutory inequalities for the last 240 years -- privileges accorded the wealthy, whites, men, whites again have fallen, and we will eventually get rid of privileges given to rural voters for a variety of historical and cultural reasons (slavery, Jeffersonian Utopian primitivism, racism).

Our 20 year trend is to less democracy and equality. I'd say there is a better chance of the union failing.

[Kepler]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

Our 20 year trend is to less democracy and equality. I'd say there is a better chance of the union failing.

Scooby, is that you?

Our 40 year trend is towards less democracy, but we're coming of the fundy fart fog, now. The Plutes and their Useful cross-masturbating Idiots, in the media and even on the Cafe, have had their day in the sun. America does solve its own problems, eventually.

We beat the Plutes back in the 1830s and the 1890s and the 1930s, and beat the racists back in the 1860s and the 1960s. There's no "arc of history" or any mystical nonsense like that, but the gears of America do, gradually, move us towards greater equality and less overtly evil systems. Conservatives die and liberals are born, and even at that the conservatives of a hundred years hence mirror the liberals of today. It is a maddeningly slow process and rarely is true progress shown in realtime except with bloodshed. But the system works. America actually is a genuinely cool creation.

All it needs to function is a few of us fighting off the really terrible few who would destroy her to line their own pockets or build a bonfire to their idols.

[unofan]

Well I would think it would be up to the state how they give out votes. If your state is 90-10 then I would think most or all would go to B.

Popular vote doesn't over rule the EC in state. State still decides who they vote for. Unless the EC is abolished in which case then every vote is independent.

Under the national vote compact, the states with 270 EVs would pledge their EVs to the winner of the National popular vote, regardless of how their own state voted.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

Hand out electoral votes based on how each congressional district voted. Remaining two go to the winner of the state unless margin of victory is within X% (say 5), them they split between the two highest vote getters.

Districts are drawn by a nonpartisan commission.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

It’s only been enacted in states where Democrats have had complete control of state government. New Mexico looks like the next to sign on. After that Delaware, Maine, Nevada and Oregon are states with Democrats in power in all branches that have yet to sign on (there is a proposal in Maine that will be going before the legislature).

After that how do you get the rest of the way to 270? The closer it comes, the more opposition will ramp up, and then there are certain to be legal challenges.

I think it’s still got a long road ahead of it.

I thought it was closer. But yeah, you’re right. I think Minnesota will pass in in the next 4-8 years.

But regardless, the legal challenges are going to be swatted down pretty quickly. It’s got a pretty strong constitutional foundation. The Constitution doesn’t say how EVs are cast. That was left up to the states on how they select their electors. It’s pretty cut and dry.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

Hand out electoral votes based on how each congressional district voted. Remaining two go to the winner of the state unless margin of victory is within X% (say 5), them they split between the two highest vote getters.

Districts are drawn by a nonpartisan commission.

Or take that to it’s extreme and divy them up in a perfectly nonpartisan way: one voter = one electoral district.

[SJHovey]

I thought it was closer. But yeah, you’re right. I think Minnesota will pass in in the next 4-8 years.

But regardless, the legal challenges are going to be swatted down pretty quickly. It’s got a pretty strong constitutional foundation. The Constitution doesn’t say how EVs are cast. That was left up to the states on how they select their electors. It’s pretty cut and dry.

Once a state joins the compact what’s to prevent it from brexiting if a different party takes control of the state government?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: All Things Fix the Constitution and Elections Thread

Nothing.