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Thread: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

  1. #721
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    No. My logic is the hundred women get together and hash out what they think
    Good luck with that.

    Now, that's sexist.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Good luck with that.

    Now, that's sexist.
    Crap. You win this round.
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  3. #723
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Let's say I walk up to a couple and offer to shake hands with the man before the woman. Let's say that 50 out of 100 women consider that act sexist on my part, because I introduced myself to the man first, while 50 out of a hundred didn't even notice the order or consider it. Does that make my act sexist?

    To follow your logic, it's sexist 50% of the time because those women perceived and defined it as such, while it's not sexist the other 50% of the time?
    Let me explain here. You don't get to decide whether something you said is homophobic or transphobic or whatever. It's on me (or another trans person you might be talking to) to determine that, and you don't have a say. EVER.

    Or to put it another way: you don't get to decide if something you said hurt me or not.
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  4. #724
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Thank you for cis-splaining what matters and how we should talk about it.

    Perhaps you'd like to white-splain about blacks later.

    In the interim your concern has been noted and logged.
    What are you getting on about? What the heck triggered you today??

    But please explain to me how overreacting to every grievance works out well for us and our cause Kep. The only ones we are killing are ourselves. We have a rapist as a President and a Pedophile is running for Senator in Alabama again (and almost won last time) but Al Franken is a disgraced former Senator because he pretended to fondle someone in a picture. Makes a lot of sense. That is my point...

    If you think I am the problem, either you dont know me (and never read what I post) or you have no idea what the problem truly is. I am about as far left on LGBTQ issues as you can get and have been longer than most of the Democratic Party has been. That has zero to do with any of this though. Professional Sports have issues dealing with very minor changes and "Trans Athletes" is going to be a monkey wrench for sure. I am not saying they shouldnt be able to play, I honestly dont even really think about it as an issue (as in yeah allow them to play) but as an observer it will interesting to see what develops as the new normal becomes...normalized. There hasnt been an openly Gay athlete active in Professional American Sports yet (MLS doesnt count) so yeah it is gonna be interesting.

    Your condescension has been noted and logged though.
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  5. #725
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    If Handy is telling us to dial it back, I'm going to find 12 on the dial.
    You broke the meter long ago

    (I think you also know what I meant)
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Note: I thought there was an openly gay one in NFL for a very short time. That Sam guy...also thought there was one in one of the other "big 4" but I could be mistaken (not on active roster post-coming out).
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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  7. #727
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    No, NO, NO! You can debate these issues no matter who you are -- e.g., having a vagina doesn't make one omniscient on all womens issues. What you cannot do is dismiss a persecuted group's claims of an attack as unreal. That's not critical analysis, it's entitlement leaking out like creamy filling.

    Or, rather, you can, but it makes you an as-shole.

    A privileged person telling a victimized person to "quiet down" makes me reach for a rusty machete.

    This is why when black people have had enough they don't blame white racists they blame all white people. Because too many erstwhile liberal white allies still think they can say, "oh, but let's not ruffle feathers about every little imagined offense..." GFY. That is not for us to say.

    When it comes to what constitutes racism or sexism or homophobia, no, the privileged group does not get a vote. What we do with that, how we handle it, what policies we enact -- yes, then we all vote. But the reality of the slight is in the eye of the victim, period, full stop.

    We run the world. That's our consolation. We don't get to dictate what constitutes reality anymore. That's our "burden."
    Except I didnt tell a victimized person to calm down...I told the LEFT to calm down. Last I checked Kepler you arent Trans. You are a privileged white male like the rest of us. Sorry but you are no more right to speak for people than anyone else.

    Your White Guilt has been logged and noted
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    Note: I thought there was an openly gay one in NFL for a very short time. That Sam guy...also thought there was one in one of the other "big 4" but I could be mistaken (not on active roster post-coming out).
    That is possible...I honestly dont remember. I know MNUFC had a player and some came out right after they retired.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  9. #729
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    Note: I thought there was an openly gay one in NFL for a very short time. That Sam guy...also thought there was one in one of the other "big 4" but I could be mistaken (not on active roster post-coming out).
    Esera Tuaolo came out of the closet shortly after retiring from the NFL. He knew he'd have been castigated and tossed off any team that knew his secret. He wasn't free until his career ended.

    Michael Sam never made it out of the pre-season. Tuaolo had more talent, playing for 10 years, but certainly was right in his assessment.
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  10. #730
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by the rube View Post
    note: I thought there was an openly gay one in nfl for a very short time. That sam guy...also thought there was one in one of the other "big 4" but i could be mistaken (not on active roster post-coming out).
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    That is possible...I honestly dont remember. I know MNUFC had a player and some came out right after they retired.
    Michael Sam (I had to google) was drafted by the StL Rams, but was cut before the regular season. Jason Collins came out and ended up playing for the Nets for one season before retiring (he did have a fairly long career beforehand).

    After that, there's a lot of info to sort through, to find out if any gay athletes in the Big 4 Sports were on active rosters after coming out.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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  12. #732
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by MissThundercat View Post
    Just Listen to Teacher:

    On where it affects or doesn't affect me:

    Where it doesn't affect me are local races, such as the Jimmy's Cheese Shack 10K.

    However, I also compete in several races that check ID. For example, before surgery, I was slated to compete in the Michigan Titanium (Michigan's answer to Ironman.) The race director had lobbied USA Triathlon (the sport's governing body) to let me compete as a female, knowing that hormones had made me significantly weaker. I hadn't heard anything since March, so I am wagering her request was flat out denied. Also, for major races, such as the Chicago and New York marathons, they do check ID, and with an M still on my driver's license, I could not compete as a female.

    There is a trickle of events now letting trans people compete as their (preferred) gender. The Boston marathon now lets transgender athletes compete as their preferred gender, pending blood work and qualifying. So does the Western States 100 mile race, pending blood work and qualifying time. The US Olympic Committee lets transgender athletes compete, pending blood work. Their standard is <10 ng/dl testosterone for over a year. If I were an elite athlete, if I kept my current T level of 6 ng/dl testosterone into June 2020, the USOC would let me compete as a female.

    This is where we're going, or so I feel. More events will let trans athletes compete as preferred gender, pending blood work at least. As my endocrinologist told me, it doesn't really matter where the estrogen level is... what matters is the testosterone. If I were an event director, you are correct, I would not let anyone pre-HRT compete as their preferred gender. Same thing in high school. The age of consent for HRT in teenagers is 16. After a year, check blood work, and see where this person is.

    And Kepler is right: I have rules for allies:

    1. Listen to me.
    2. Let me speak for myself and back me up when necessary.
    3. If you screw up, such as with name and pronouns, quickly correct and move on.
    4. It's not all about you.
    5. Oh, you gave yourself a temporary Facebook profile picture celebrating Pride month. Have that same enthusiasm July 1.

    Truth is, I feel the lot of you aren't listening. I also feel you're saying I can't be angry over things that genuinely concern me. I also feel that when I go to speak up, you basically cut me off, or when I do speak, you gloss right over it. I find myself saying "f-cking cishets (cisgender heterosexual)" on a daily basis. Even here, I find myself saying "f-cking cishets." I also know the L, G, and B part of that alphabet don't care much for the T. Basically, I feel myself, along with my fellow trans people, are on our own.
    Yours is the only opinion in here I actually care about on this subject. I dont speak for you but I will speak in defense of you.

    Your last line is rather striking btw as I bet I see/talk to/associate with as many or MORE trans people than I do Gay or Lesbians. And they all seem to get along quite well. I guess I never thought of it like you say. That really sucks. There is enough hate in the world who needs that...
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  13. #733
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    Michael Sam (I had to google) was drafted by the StL Rams, but was cut before the regular season. Jason Collins came out and ended up playing for the Nets for one season before retiring (he did have a fairly long career beforehand).

    After that, there's a lot of info to sort through, to find out if any gay athletes in the Big 4 Sports were on active rosters after coming out.
    Oh yeah...I totally forgot about that!
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  14. #734
    If Only You Knew MissThundercat's Avatar
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Yours is the only opinion in here I actually care about on this subject. I dont speak for you but I will speak in defense of you.

    Your last line is rather striking btw as I bet I see/talk to/associate with as many or MORE trans people than I do Gay or Lesbians. And they all seem to get along quite well. I guess I never thought of it like you say. That really sucks. There is enough hate in the world who needs that...
    I know when Trump planned to define genitals as gender, we had to beg the LGB to help us. Locally, I am seeing LGB help, but we need a lot more of it on a national scale. And yes, trans people get along quite well. I meet another trans person, 99.5% of the time, we click and go off on adventures. When I started hormones, my sisters (yes, we're family) basically said "come with us if you want to live."
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  15. #735
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Well I meant the LGBs socialized with the Ts. Maybe I wasnt paying enough attention.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  16. #736
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Well I meant the LGBs socialized with the Ts. Maybe I wasnt paying enough attention.
    That's good. Hope to see more of it.
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  17. #737

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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Except I didnt tell a victimized person to calm down...I told the LEFT to calm down. Last I checked Kepler you arent Trans. You are a privileged white male like the rest of us. Sorry but you are no more right to speak for people than anyone else.

    Your White Guilt has been logged and noted
    Retreat and declare victory! You have learned well from Dump, Grasshopper.
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  18. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissThundercat View Post
    Let me explain here. You don't get to decide whether something you said is homophobic or transphobic or whatever. It's on me (or another trans person you might be talking to) to determine that, and you don't have a say. EVER.

    Or to put it another way: you don't get to decide if something you said hurt me or not.
    I suggest you go back and read my post. I didn’t claim the right to decide. That would be subjective, which I specifically argued against. I believe it has to be judged against a reasonable person standard.

  19. #739
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Retreat and declare victory! You have learned well from Dump, Grasshopper.
    Uh huh...methinks the Dump Deflection Award goes to you
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  20. #740
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    Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    I suggest you go back and read my post. I didn’t claim the right to decide. That would be subjective, which I specifically argued against. I believe it has to be judged against a reasonable person standard.
    You wouldn't making the comment against generic X person. What I'm saying is the minority group gets to decide if it's offensive or not. That's the only standard that matters.
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