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Thread: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

  1. #1

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    Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Part 2 - a bit controversial

    The NCAA Division III Men's Ice Hockey Tournament is a 12 team tournament. There are 8 Automatic Qualifiers (Pool A) and 4 At-Large berths (Pool C). There are no Pool B selections. All teams not in Pool A are eligible for selection in Pool C.

    For the 18-19 and 19-20 seasons, the NCAA Division III selections will be made via the Pair Wise Ranking System that has been used by our Division I brethren. The latest PWR ranking can be found here. The rankings used here are accurate as of this posting. After Tuesday, things may change.

    Bracketology assumes the season ended yesterday. That is, no more games are to be played. In absence of the conference tournament, the first place teams in each Conference are assigned to Pool A. They are (with their PWR ranking in parenthesis):

    CCC: Salve Regina (17)
    MASCAC: Plymouth State (31)
    MIAC: Augsburg (11)
    NCHA: St. Norbert (6)
    NEHC: Mass-Boston (5)
    NESCAC: Wesleyan (10)
    SUNYAC: Geneseo (2)
    UCHC: Utica (15)

    The next 4 teams in the PWR, not otherwise in Pool A are:
    Wisconsin-Stevens Point (1)
    Oswego (3)
    Norwich (4)
    Adrian (7)

    Ranking them now in PWR order we have:
    Stevens Point (1)
    Geneseo (2)
    Oswego (3)
    Norwich (4)
    Mass-Boston (5)
    St. Norbert (6)
    Adrian (7)
    Wesleyan (10)
    Augsburg (11)
    Utica (15)
    Salve Regina (17)
    Plymouth St. (31)

    We have 4 West teams and 8 East teams. Or do we? Adrian, for as long as they have been in the tournament, are the wild card and the tournament committee has shifted them into the Eastern side if it makes sense.

    The famous NCAA Mileage Calculator is used by the NCAA to decide on flight/bus, with 500 miles being the cutoff. The NCAA Pre Championship Manual has all the stuff you need, including a very interesting bracket template (which I consigned to the trash bin).

    The mileage from Adrian to the other 3 Western schools are:
    Stevens-Point: 490
    St. Norbert: 435
    Augsburg: 636

    How about Eastern schools?
    Oswego: 486
    Geneseo: 395
    Utica: 534

    If we do a 4 team western bracket there is a possibility that Augsburg would travel to Adrian and that would mean a flight.

    So we'll do this:
    Round 1 (March 9)
    Augsburg at St. Norbert
    Plymouth St. at Norwich
    Salve Regina at Mass-Boston
    Utica at Wesleyan

    Byes: Stevens Point, Geneseo, Oswego, Adrian

    Quarterfinals March (16)
    Augsburg/St. Norbert at Stevens Point
    Weselyan/Utica at Geneseo
    Salve Regina/Mass-Boston v Plymouth/Norwich
    Adrian at Oswego

    Semifinals (March 22)
    Stevens Point/Augsburg/St. Norbert v Salve Regina/Mass-Boston/Plymouth St./Norwich
    Weslayan/Utica/Geneseo v Adrian/Oswego

    Finals (March 24)
    Semifinal winners
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Part 2 - a bit controversial

    The NCAA Division III Men's Ice Hockey Tournament is a 12 team tournament. There are 8 Automatic Qualifiers (Pool A) and 4 At-Large berths (Pool C). There are no Pool B selections. All teams not in Pool A are eligible for selection in Pool C.

    For the 18-19 and 19-20 seasons, the NCAA Division III selections will be made via the Pair Wise Ranking System that has been used by our Division I brethren. The latest PWR ranking can be found here. The rankings used here are accurate as of this posting. After Tuesday, things may change.

    Bracketology assumes the season ended yesterday. That is, no more games are to be played. In absence of the conference tournament, the first place teams in each Conference are assigned to Pool A. They are (with their PWR ranking in parenthesis):

    CCC: Salve Regina (17)
    MASCAC: Plymouth State (31)
    MIAC: Augsburg (11)
    NCHA: St. Norbert (6)
    NEHC: Mass-Boston (5)
    NESCAC: Wesleyan (10)
    SUNYAC: Geneseo (2)
    UCHC: Utica (15)

    The next 4 teams in the PWR, not otherwise in Pool A are:
    Wisconsin-Stevens Point (1)
    Oswego (3)
    Norwich (4)
    Adrian (7)

    Ranking them now in PWR order we have:
    Stevens Point (1)
    Geneseo (2)
    Oswego (3)
    Norwich (4)
    Mass-Boston (5)
    St. Norbert (6)
    Adrian (7)
    Wesleyan (10)
    Augsburg (11)
    Utica (15)
    Salve Regina (17)
    Plymouth St. (31)

    We have 4 West teams and 8 East teams. Or do we? Adrian, for as long as they have been in the tournament, are the wild card and the tournament committee has shifted them into the Eastern side if it makes sense.

    The famous NCAA Mileage Calculator is used by the NCAA to decide on flight/bus, with 500 miles being the cutoff. The NCAA Pre Championship Manual has all the stuff you need, including a very interesting bracket template (which I consigned to the trash bin).

    The mileage from Adrian to the other 3 Western schools are:
    Stevens-Point: 490
    St. Norbert: 435
    Augsburg: 636

    How about Eastern schools?
    Oswego: 486
    Geneseo: 395
    Utica: 534

    If we do a 4 team western bracket there is a possibility that Augsburg would travel to Adrian and that would mean a flight.

    So we'll do this:
    Round 1 (March 9)
    Augsburg at St. Norbert
    Plymouth St. at Norwich
    Salve Regina at Mass-Boston
    Utica at Wesleyan

    Byes: Stevens Point, Geneseo, Oswego, Adrian

    Quarterfinals March (16)
    Augsburg/St. Norbert at Stevens Point
    Weselyan/Utica at Geneseo
    Salve Regina/Mass-Boston v Plymouth/Norwich
    Adrian at Oswego

    Semifinals (March 22)
    Stevens Point/Augsburg/St. Norbert v Salve Regina/Mass-Boston/Plymouth St./Norwich
    Weslayan/Utica/Geneseo v Adrian/Oswego

    Finals (March 24)
    Semifinal winners
    For the 100th time, if there are four western teams and they have two quarterfinals in the west, no flights are necessary. You have again ignored this scenario.

  3. #3
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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Nubs View Post
    For the 100th time, if there are four western teams and they have two quarterfinals in the west, no flights are necessary. You have again ignored this scenario.
    I think the real question is going to be are they going to try everything they can to put the championship weekend out west? If so, then they will make sure two western teams make it to the semifinals and won't play around with the Adrian can go east situation if they don't have to.
    Russell Jaslow
    [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
    U.S. College Hockey Online

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Nubs View Post
    For the 100th time, if there are four western teams and they have two quarterfinals in the west, no flights are necessary. You have again ignored this scenario.
    Adrian -> Augsburg is a flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
    I think the real question is going to be are they going to try everything they can to put the championship weekend out west? If so, then they will make sure two western teams make it to the semifinals and won't play around with the Adrian can go east situation if they don't have to.
    I know Dan said it is (and if Dan said it, it has to be true!), but if it's Augsburg and Adrian vs. Oswego, do they really want to do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Adrian -> Augsburg is a flight.
    Augsburg 4
    Adrian 3
    SNC 2
    Point 1

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Adrian -> Augsburg is a flight.
    One more time from the cheap seats...It doesn't matter if the four western teams go straight to the quarterfinals and those two teams aren't paired with each other. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    I tend to agree that the eastern teams would all play the first round. QF would include Adrian @ Stevens Point, Augsburg @ St. Norbert, and the 4 survivors from the first round. Now you have guaranteed two western teams for your western final four with no flights until the final four.
    Steve
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    Plattsburgh State Class of '99

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Nubs View Post
    One more time from the cheap seats...It doesn't matter if the four western teams go straight to the quarterfinals and those two teams aren't paired with each other. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.
    If you're talking 2 QFs out west, you re correct. If the NCAA has one Western team going to the FFF then no.

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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Having 4 teams fight for 2 FF spots and the other 8 teams fight for the final 2 FF spots just seems odd to me...dang travel

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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    I think you can have balance without compromising integrity.
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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Quote Originally Posted by sacole13 View Post
    I think you can have balance without compromising integrity.
    Come up with a method that absolutely avoids having to fly a team in the first round or QF, and we're all ears. History tells us that trumps bracket integrity.

    It's even worse on the women's side where Adrian seems to play Elmira every year because that's the only team in the tourney Adrian can bus to. They're both usually pretty high seeds and bracket integrity is busted before they even make the first hotel reservations.
    Steve
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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Quote Originally Posted by 802Hockey View Post
    Having 4 teams fight for 2 FF spots and the other 8 teams fight for the final 2 FF spots just seems odd to me...dang travel
    SNC has been a big beneficiary of this lately and it still doesn't feel right to me.
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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Quote Originally Posted by spwood View Post
    Come up with a method that absolutely avoids having to fly a team in the first round or QF, and we're all ears. History tells us that trumps bracket integrity.

    It's even worse on the women's side where Adrian seems to play Elmira every year because that's the only team in the tourney Adrian can bus to. They're both usually pretty high seeds and bracket integrity is busted before they even make the first hotel reservations.
    St. Norbert is within 435 that would not kill the integrity that bad. 6 vs 7 and 1 vs 11 out West.


    Adrian vs St. Norbert
    Augsburg vs Steven Point
    Mass Boston vs Salve Regina
    Wesleyan vs Utica


    So yes that will only leave 1 West school and a East FF.
    Last edited by sacole13; 02-11-2019 at 02:55 PM.
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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Quote Originally Posted by sacole13 View Post
    So yes that will only leave 1 West school and a East FF.
    I don't disagree with you, but the rumors abound that a western final four is already a done deal. If that's the case, they will probably structure the tourney to ensure two western teams in the final four and that means the eastern teams (including the current #2, #3, #4, and #5 national seed) will have to play the first round.
    Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Coughlin View Post
    SNC has been a big beneficiary of this lately and it still doesn't feel right to me.
    Don't feel bad. No one in the east was feeling sorry for the west when the west played four teams down to one in those years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 802Hockey View Post
    Having 4 teams fight for 2 FF spots and the other 8 teams fight for the final 2 FF spots just seems odd to me...dang travel
    Sounds like WIAC sour grapes to me. If the east would win a championship more than once every 5, or 6 years it wouldnt be an issue.

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    Re: Bracketology 1.1 - before the conference tournaments. Don't be upset

    Any insights regarding the host selection of the frozen four? Campus site this year, yes? Did the criteria change to allow more potential schools to apply? If you have a frozen 4 with 2 east and 2 west schools and none made application to host, what happens?
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    Quote Originally Posted by snc1 View Post
    Sounds like WIAC sour grapes to me. If the east would win a championship more than once every 5, or 6 years it wouldnt be an issue.
    A simple fact check would prove your eastern slight false. If you donít see a problem with the current format I donít know what to tell you. I understand it with travel restrictions but itís not ideal.

    And I do understand sirnubs that it used to be unfair to the west but making that argument years later is just foolish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 802Hockey View Post
    A simple fact check would prove your eastern slight false. If you donít see a problem with the current format I donít know what to tell you. I understand it with travel restrictions but itís not ideal.

    And I do understand sirnubs that it used to be unfair to the west but making that argument years later is just foolish.
    I believe that was hyperbole

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