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Thread: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by 4and20 View Post
    This may have been discussed earlier and I missed it BUT, How stupid is it to schedule a college hockey game on Thanksgiving evening? Yes I understand there is a Football game on Saturday but what was wrong with Friday Sunday or Wednesday Friday. After 39 years as a season ticket holder that was the straw after the last straw, raising the extortion fees. I don't care if it is North Dakota, they may not get as many fans as they had for the B1G playoff games last spring. Good Bye and Good Luck!
    Thanksgiving evening aside, I LOVE the upcoming season's schedule. One disappointing nitpick surely does not justify non-renewing your season ticket!
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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by 4and20 View Post
    This may have been discussed earlier and I missed it BUT, How stupid is it to schedule a college hockey game on Thanksgiving evening? Yes I understand there is a Football game on Saturday but what was wrong with Friday Sunday or Wednesday Friday. After 39 years as a season ticket holder that was the straw after the last straw, raising the extortion fees. I don't care if it is North Dakota, they may not get as many fans as they had for the B1G playoff games last spring. Good Bye and Good Luck!
    Arguably the Thanksgiving clash is unconventional in college hockey. However, scheduling a game with the Wioux on Thanksgiving is not as reprehensible as you propose. With conflicting sporting events, on-campus schedule adjustments are a necessary means of crowd control.

    It's a matter of perception. The NFL has been scheduling games on Thanksgiving for decades and lots of people annually incorporate the game time experience into their Thanksgiving holiday fun. Sitting round watching NFL football at home after a big meal may have become sacred to some, but there are other options. Why not do something different this year and bring your family to the game, have some fun and support Gopher hockey? If I was available, I'd grab some family and friends, have a couple beers and enjoy one of the most exciting rivalries in all of college hockey history.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    I don't think the TGD game was a cash grab at all - I think they had very little choice.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    Thanksgiving evening aside, I LOVE the upcoming season's schedule. One disappointing nitpick surely does not justify non-renewing your season ticket!
    It's definitely much better than last season's start with UMD followed by two weeks of exhibitions. This season's schedule has only one back-to-back Away series too, compared to two last season. It's been three seasons since the Gophers were above .500 on the road.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    Some very nice improvements, but no mention of reducing rink size.

    https://gophersports.com/news/2019/7...gn=GopherDaily
    They need to reduce the rink size and add more seats.
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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by 4four4 View Post
    They need to reduce the rink size and add more seats.
    My understanding is that this is the long-term plan, but the funding is not there yet. Anyone know what the approximate cost is projected to be?
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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    My understanding is that this is the long-term plan, but the funding is not there yet. Anyone know what the approximate cost is projected to be?
    I'm gonna say $2M+. Lucia thought if they did shrink it, it would be a hybrid.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveO View Post
    I'm gonna say $2M+. Lucia thought if they did shrink it, it would be a hybrid.
    My understanding is that shrinking it to a regular NHL 200 x 85 ice surface is simply not in the cards, mainly due to cost, so a hybrid sheet something like 200 x 90, is the only realistic option. But I have heard nothing about the estimated cost to implement the new ice surface (and required seating configuration) but I'm beginning to get the impression that no specific timetable has yet been set, likely due to funding considerations.
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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    My understanding is that shrinking it to a regular NHL 200 x 85 ice surface is simply not in the cards, mainly due to cost, so a hybrid sheet something like 200 x 90, is the only realistic option. But I have heard nothing about the estimated cost to implement the new ice surface (and required seating configuration) but I'm beginning to get the impression that no specific timetable has yet been set, likely due to funding considerations.
    Agreed D2D, with the decline in ticket revenue there simply isn't a budget surplus for any serious renovations to the ice surface in the immediate future. New boards, glass, floor surface replacement, refrigeration alterations, and new seating is an expensive investment, but there's no money in program cookie jar for such a project at this time. The hybrid surface is most likely a compromise based upon the fact it would be much more costly to reduce to an NHL ice surface.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveO View Post
    Agreed D2D, with the decline in ticket revenue there simply isn't a budget surplus for any serious renovations to the ice surface in the immediate future. New boards, glass, floor surface replacement, refrigeration alterations, and new seating is an expensive investment, but there's no money in program cookie jar for such a project at this time. The hybrid surface is most likely a compromise based upon the fact it would be much more costly to reduce to an NHL ice surface.
    200 x 90 might also be something of a sweet spot in competitive terms. It would lessen the adjustment needed to play on 200 x 85 ice sheets. Yet it would retain a bit of home ice advantage for a team that usually has an edge in terms of speed.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveO View Post
    I'm gonna say $2M+. Lucia thought if they did shrink it, it would be a hybrid.
    The refrigeration system alone could be close to $1M for an arena like this. Especially since they're going to have to tear up the concrete. The removal of that much concrete might take $50,000-$250,000 depending on a number of factors. If I had to guess this is closer to $5-7.5 million. Trying to get the new seats right is going to be difficult. It may require reworking portions of the entire bowl. Also, if youíre going to add that many more people, the HVAC system would likely need to be looked at. As well as code requirements for water closet count. Honestly, this project could be way, way more than what they bargained for.

    Iíve done estimates on local hockey rinks concerting ice sheets and renovating existing refrigeration systems. They are NOT cheap. Iíve also done estimates and projects at the U. Youíve probably seen some of my work at some point if you have ever attended an outdoor hockey game at TCF or been to a football game in November.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgb-ohio View Post
    200 x 90 might also be something of a sweet spot in competitive terms. It would lessen the adjustment needed to play on 200 x 85 ice sheets. Yet it would retain a bit of home ice advantage for a team that usually has an edge in terms of speed.
    Stop. You cannot be serious. Anyone, that is anyone, would insist on 200 x 87.5.

    If anyone advises against this they clearly are, and overwhelmingly so, a buffoon full of poppycock.

    Signed a devote UNH fan

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    University of Illinois has it right when it comes to ice sheet dimensions: 197íx115í

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    The refrigeration system alone could be close to $1M for an arena like this. Especially since they're going to have to tear up the concrete. The removal of that much concrete might take $50,000-$250,000 depending on a number of factors. If I had to guess this is closer to $5-7.5 million. Trying to get the new seats right is going to be difficult. It may require reworking portions of the entire bowl. Also, if youíre going to add that many more people, the HVAC system would likely need to be looked at. As well as code requirements for water closet count. Honestly, this project could be way, way more than what they bargained for.

    Iíve done estimates on local hockey rinks concerting ice sheets and renovating existing refrigeration systems. They are NOT cheap. Iíve also done estimates and projects at the U. Youíve probably seen some of my work at some point if you have ever attended an outdoor hockey game at TCF or been to a football game in November.
    Nice post and info dx. Interesting to see your take on it with your experience. I recall engineers were looking at the Kohl ice sheet renovations during Eaves tenure some years ago. IIRC they were looking at $2-3M, but arguably that's a few years ago and there were many unknowns. They commented that they couldn't tell when considering price if the floor anchors could be relocated or a complete floor replacement was the only option. But as you pointed out, there are other factors such as the HVAC that may significantly escalate costs. Mariucci is going to have to punt on this one for a while until Motzko brings back the glory of Golden Gopher hockey.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    The refrigeration system alone could be close to $1M for an arena like this. Especially since they're going to have to tear up the concrete. The removal of that much concrete might take $50,000-$250,000 depending on a number of factors. If I had to guess this is closer to $5-7.5 million. Trying to get the new seats right is going to be difficult. It may require reworking portions of the entire bowl. Also, if you’re going to add that many more people, the HVAC system would likely need to be looked at. As well as code requirements for water closet count. Honestly, this project could be way, way more than what they bargained for.

    I’ve done estimates on local hockey rinks concerting ice sheets and renovating existing refrigeration systems. They are NOT cheap. I’ve also done estimates and projects at the U. You’ve probably seen some of my work at some point if you have ever attended an outdoor hockey game at TCF or been to a football game in November.
    They would probably have to dig deep into the existing foundation to place the rink, in order to accommodate those new seats without interrupting the sightlines for the rest of the bowl's seats. Either that or go with one of two options: 1) completely redesign the bowl for the new seats or 2) go with messed up sightlines for all the existing seats.
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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    They would probably have to dig deep into the existing foundation to place the rink, in order to accommodate those new seats without interrupting the sightlines for the rest of the bowl's seats. Either that or go with one of two options: 1) completely redesign the bowl for the new seats or 2) go with messed up sightlines for all the existing seats.
    That's another thing I didn't even think about. That being said, Maroosh is dug into the ground. So it's less of an issue but I'm guessing the caissons were put in around the perimeter because the weight of the structure is distributed towards the sides. There is very little center support towards the ice (relative to the rest of the arena).

    But if there are any major structural elements that go down 20+ feet under the ice, it's even more complicated. Especially given that there's a roof overhead...

    But to your other point about sightlines, that's kind of what I was getting at when I said the new seats are going to be difficult to get right without reworking portions (large portions) of the existing bowl). The ends and sides should be ok. But anything outside of the blue lines on the sides and outside of the faceoff dots on the ends is going to be fugly.

    I still don't know if this will be done in the next ten years. I'm guessing every time someone comes in and re-estimates it closer to construction, the estimates get larger and probably substantially so. Trying to scope something like this is very hard without getting into it and spending 10-20% of the final cost of construction. If the U doesn't get that preliminary engineering money, this isn't going to be pretty in terms of finances.
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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackI View Post
    Stop. You cannot be serious. Anyone, that is anyone, would insist on 200 x 87.5.

    If anyone advises against this they clearly are, and overwhelmingly so, a buffoon full of poppycock.

    Signed a devote UNH fan
    Shrug. Beyond snark, what's the significance of 87.5? Width of the Whitt?

    200 x 100 makes a big difference. Lots of extra of room, and a little tough on players with mediocre speed. Which would be the category I'm in, even at the lowly levels I've played at.

    Guess I should let the speed guys speak for themselves. But I'd think that an 5 extra feet for the entire length of the rink would amount to enough square footage to be worthwhile.
    Last edited by pgb-ohio; 07-25-2019 at 03:25 PM.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    That's another thing I didn't even think about. That being said, Maroosh is dug into the ground. So it's less of an issue but I'm guessing the caissons were put in around the perimeter because the weight of the structure is distributed towards the sides. There is very little center support towards the ice (relative to the rest of the arena).

    But if there are any major structural elements that go down 20+ feet under the ice, it's even more complicated. Especially given that there's a roof overhead...

    But to your other point about sightlines, that's kind of what I was getting at when I said the new seats are going to be difficult to get right without reworking portions (large portions) of the existing bowl). The ends and sides should be ok. But anything outside of the blue lines on the sides and outside of the faceoff dots on the ends is going to be fugly.

    I still don't know if this will be done in the next ten years. I'm guessing every time someone comes in and re-estimates it closer to construction, the estimates get larger and probably substantially so. Trying to scope something like this is very hard without getting into it and spending 10-20% of the final cost of construction. If the U doesn't get that preliminary engineering money, this isn't going to be pretty in terms of finances.
    Along the list of the frustrating things, this time from a players/coaches vantage point, is that Mariucci currently has one of the best sheets of ice upon which I've ever skated. I've been to dozens of local high school, community and college rinks, and the X, and I've been to a few rinks out of town, too, and Mariucci's is the best skating ice around. Can they replicate that setup with the replacement cooling system? People want to say yes to that question, but it's a much more difficult thing to replicate than most people would expect. A lot of math in that equation.
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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Met Center had the best ice I've skated on by far and it's really bizarre how something from afar that seems so elementary could be so vastly different from sheet to sheet.

    Never skated at Mecca but I've heard the same.

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    Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

    Complex systems. Itís not just running tubes in concrete.

    But most likely, itís the ice crew that keeps it that way.

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