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Thread: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDemento View Post
    RB- i agree but i would add that not only are requirements going down, grades have gone up considerably. In our day the most common grade seemed to be a C or at most a B. Now at most schools, and i suspect even at RPI, just about everyone gets an A. (often for just enrolling in the course and shoing up)
    Grades certainly have gone up since I worked in the Registrar’s Office 40 years ago. In those days the average GPA was in the 2.8 range (which was probably well up from the pre-Vietnam days). Here’s a great site (www.gradeinflation.com) that discusses the issue and includes links to published papers. According to the data provided our alma mater has been relatively modest in grade inflation compared to most.

    It will probably come as no surprise to many that some of our league mates have been major drivers of inflation. A few years ago one of the academic officers at Harvard admitted that the average GPA is an A- and the most common grade is an A. At that point one wonders why they bother giving grades at all. With a 99% graduation rate perhaps they should just include the diploma with the admissions letter.
    Last edited by rpi82; 02-03-2019 at 02:54 PM.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by rpi82 View Post
    Grades certainly have gone up since I worked in the Registrar’s Office 40 years ago. In those days the average GPA was in the 2.8 range (which was probably well up from the pre-Vietnam days). Here’s a great site (www.gradeinflation.com) that discusses the issue and includes links to published papers. According to the data provided our alma mater has been relatively modest in grade inflation compared to most.

    It will probably come as no surprise to many that some of our league mates have been major drivers of inflation. A few years ago one of the academic officers at Harvard admitted that the average GPA is an A- and the most common grade is an A. At that point one wonders why they bother giving grades at all. With a 99% graduation rate perhaps they should just include the diploma with the admissions letter.
    I think that grade inlflation started long before I attended RPI, and that at some point 2.0 was indeed an average grade. I don't know what it was when I was at RPI, but I agree that it must have been below 2.8. Due to the fact that lower grade students are more likely to leave before graduating, either because they flunk out, any scholarship is withdrawn, or they just leave, the average GPA of grads is higher than the average of all students.

    Grade inflation must really be very significant elsewhere if RPI can be described as modest. Looking at stats for hockey players and other athletes which we often see, there has been a lot of grade inflation at RPI. I don't recall a hockey player being on probation in decades. It was a common occurrence when I was at RPI. I suspect that RPI coaching staff looks at a prospective athlete's academic record more than they did 50 years ago, and tutoring is more available, but grade inflation also helps.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Just wondering - with hockey players coming into school much later than most students (many arrive at an age that I was when I was in my second year of medical school) do they bring with them many college credits in advance and if they have received grades for this, do they count in their cumulative average? If they do not count, do they perhaps at least qualify for their core courses so that they can then concentrate their studies at RPI in courses that, shall we say, are easier graded?
    On a side note - perhaps even the regular non athletes coming into college have received advanced credits that allow them to then also concentrate on courses that are somewhat easier in which to receive higher grades? i have no idea about any of this having been out of college for over 52 years but as I recall getting an 'A' in a course at RPI (especially mathematics, science, architecture or engineering) was in no way a given. A 3.0 average was considered Dean's List and quite the achievement. I actually found my first year in medical school far easier than RPI and frankly just boring memorization.
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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDemento View Post
    Just wondering - with hockey players coming into school much later than most students (many arrive at an age that I was when I was in my second year of medical school) do they bring with them many college credits in advance and if they have received grades for this, do they count in their cumulative average? If they do not count, do they perhaps at least qualify for their core courses so that they can then concentrate their studies at RPI in courses that, shall we say, are easier graded?
    On a side note - perhaps even the regular non athletes coming into college have received advanced credits that allow them to then also concentrate on courses that are somewhat easier in which to receive higher grades? i have no idea about any of this having been out of college for over 52 years but as I recall getting an 'A' in a course at RPI (especially mathematics, science, architecture or engineering) was in no way a given. A 3.0 average was considered Dean's List and quite the achievement. I actually found my first year in medical school far easier than RPI and frankly just boring memorization.
    Given the number of students that are graduate transferring (and not just at RPI, but at other schools as well), they have to be bringing in credits. Remember they get tutoring time during the week when in juniors; it wouldn't surprise me if some college credits were included there so they can bypass the 101 here.

    I don't think it's just AP, though. A lot of courses are graded on a curve. Also, not much is actually being learned aside from "trivia" and, at least in the humanities, "brainwashing".

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Remember that there also is the rule that if an athlete playing junior hockey reaches his 21st birthday and has not yet matriculated in college, he loses a year of eligibility. Present Freshman Kyle Hallbauer was born in 3/2/97. I am too lazy to look, but he probably played last year after 3/2/18. Assuming that he was taking courses at some college, and it could be a junior college, he won't lose a year of eligibility, but his 5 years to complete his 4 years of hockey eligibility started. Thus we can't red shirt him. Many other players also take courses. Indeed some junior leagues require it for those not still in HS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Baer View Post
    I think that grade inlflation started long before I attended RPI, and that at some point 2.0 was indeed an average grade. I don't know what it was when I was at RPI, but I agree that it must have been below 2.8. Due to the fact that lower grade students are more likely to leave before graduating, either because they flunk out, any scholarship is withdrawn, or they just leave, the average GPA of grads is higher than the average of all students.

    Grade inflation must really be very significant elsewhere if RPI can be described as modest. Looking at stats for hockey players and other athletes which we often see, there has been a lot of grade inflation at RPI. I don't recall a hockey player being on probation in decades. It was a common occurrence when I was at RPI. I suspect that RPI coaching staff looks at a prospective athlete's academic record more than they did 50 years ago, and tutoring is more available, but grade inflation also helps.
    Athletes (not limited to hockey players but they, obviously, get particular attention and resources as our only D-I sport) have a very structured program with study hall, study groups, weekly tracking, tutors, etc. The hockey players are also heavily concentrated in the Lally School. While that is less intense than most engineering or physical science departments, we should not forget that in the grand scheme of academia it is still far more challenging than most. RPI athletes invest a tremendous of time in their sports and are deserving of any extra resources available.
    Last edited by rpi82; 02-04-2019 at 08:08 AM.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    We know a young lady who is currently in college being paid for my an almost full ride as a scholarship for bowling. She is a bright young lady but i would have never felt back years ago that she could have gained admission to RPI based solely on academics. In those days her SAT scores would have probably disqualified her. She has shown me her transcript of grades and her GPA is now 4.25 with mostly 'A' grades, one 'A-' grade which broke her heart and she had disputed, and a few grades of 'A+' worth more than 4.0 obviously.
    Speaking of SAT scores, are those test still given and are they used as any sort of criteria for admissions to RPI? I have now been out of the loop about these things for some time. There was a time when RPI proudly listed the average SAT scores for the entering classes but I do not think that has been the case now for some time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDemento View Post
    We know a young lady who is currently in college being paid for my an almost full ride as a scholarship for bowling. She is a bright young lady but i would have never felt back years ago that she could have gained admission to RPI based solely on academics. In those days her SAT scores would have probably disqualified her. She has shown me her transcript of grades and her GPA is now 4.25 with mostly 'A' grades, one 'A-' grade which broke her heart and she had disputed, and a few grades of 'A+' worth more than 4.0 obviously.
    Speaking of SAT scores, are those test still given and are they used as any sort of criteria for admissions to RPI? I have now been out of the loop about these things for some time. There was a time when RPI proudly listed the average SAT scores for the entering classes but I do not think that has been the case now for some time.
    Bowling scholarship? Obviously she isn’t at RPI. As for the SAT, RPI’s mean is 1399 and median is 1410 (for the class that entered in 2017). You can get that and a lot of other statistical info for virtually every significant college or university by Googling its Common Data Set.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by rpi82 View Post
    Bowling scholarship? Obviously she isn’t at RPI. As for the SAT, RPI’s mean is 1399 and median is 1410 (for the class that entered in 2017). You can get that and a lot of other statistical info for virtually every significant college or university by Googling its Common Data Set.
    Assuming those numbers are based upon the same scale which I am familiar with and haven't been renormalized or anything, my marks are exactly at the current mean. Interesting.

    Bowling brings me back to the alleys in the gym which were not automatic. One person sat behind the alleys, in danger of flying pins, so he could manually reset them. This was already old-fashioned when I was a freshman.
    Last edited by Ralph Baer; 02-04-2019 at 10:36 AM.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Baer View Post
    Assuming those numbers are based upon the same scale which I am familiar with and haven't been renormalized or anything, my marks are exactly at the current mean. Interesting.

    Bowling brings me back to the alleys in the gym which were not automatic. One person sat behind the alleys, in danger of flying pins, so he could manually reset them. This was already old-fashioned when I was a freshman.
    I worked part time as a pin setter in my early teen years at lanes in Brooklyn. I got a 10 cent tip for each game I worked. If i liked the fellow bowling and he was a tipper, he got a good set. If I was setting for a non tipper, I would place the ten pin just off the spot causing more solid ten pins left as spares!
    Take the shortest distance to the puck and arrive in ill humor

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by rpi82 View Post
    Bowling scholarship? Obviously she isn’t at RPI. As for the SAT, RPI’s mean is 1399 and median is 1410 (for the class that entered in 2017). You can get that and a lot of other statistical info for virtually every significant college or university by Googling its Common Data Set.
    Are these numbers based on the decades old 800 Math 800 Verbal maximum or is there some other maximum number or a third part to the test?
    Take the shortest distance to the puck and arrive in ill humor

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Baer View Post
    Assuming those numbers are based upon the same scale which I am familiar with and haven't been renormalized or anything, my marks are exactly at the current mean. Interesting.

    Bowling brings me back to the alleys in the gym which were not automatic. One person sat behind the alleys, in danger of flying pins, so he could manually reset them. This was already old-fashioned when I was a freshman.
    I remember when the Student Union games room had a bowling alley. No longer; it's been replaced by a lounge.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    I remember when the Student Union games room had a bowling alley. No longer; it's been replaced by a lounge.
    Those bowling alleys (weren't there more than one?) replaced those in the gym.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDemento View Post
    Are these numbers based on the decades old 800 Math 800 Verbal maximum or is there some other maximum number or a third part to the test?
    Those figures better not include the third part.
    Last edited by Ralph Baer; 02-04-2019 at 12:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDemento View Post
    Are these numbers based on the decades old 800 Math 800 Verbal maximum or is there some other maximum number or a third part to the test?
    They are from the “new SAT” which is based on 2x800 as you noted. For about a decade they also had a writing section (that few colleges used) for a max of 2400 but it was dropped when they updated the test standards and structure 3 or 4 years ago.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDemento View Post
    Are these numbers based on the decades old 800 Math 800 Verbal maximum or is there some other maximum number or a third part to the test?
    For a while, there was a third part (instituted after I took it) that made it out of 2400; it has since reverted to 1600.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Baer View Post
    Those bowling alleys (weren't there more than one?) replaced those in the gym.
    There were I believe four lanes (maybe 2), but still constitutes a single bowling alley.

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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by rpi82 View Post
    They are from the “new SAT” which is based on 2x800 as you noted. For about a decade they also had a writing section (that few colleges used) for a max of 2400 but it was dropped when they updated the test standards and structure 3 or 4 years ago.
    Thanks for the info - just did a search and the numbers for various schools are just fascinating.
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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading


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    Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019 Part II: We're Just Gonna Complain, Don't Bother Reading

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDemento View Post
    I worked part time as a pin setter in my early teen years at lanes in Brooklyn. I got a 10 cent tip for each game I worked. If i liked the fellow bowling and he was a tipper, he got a good set. If I was setting for a non tipper, I would place the ten pin just off the spot causing more solid ten pins left as spares!
    Dr. D, tonight is my regular bowling league night.

    Every time I leave a ten pin, I'm going to think you messed with the automatic pinsetter.

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