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  • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

    Originally posted by BassAle View Post
    It will be a big whup when Denver, Vegas, Albuquerque, and Tucson run out of water. These places have already changed, many people living there would say for the worse.
    The waters wars is a whole different problem. If we can't tech our way out of that then everything west of the Mississippi River and south of the Columbia/Snake/Missouri might as well be the Kalahari.

    If it comes to that, without a reversal of climate change the die off from resource wars and simple environmental exhaustion will hold the US pop stagnant no matter how many immigrants come in. Be rich or be dead. Skin color, ethnicity, and birth status will be a non-factor.
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    • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

      Originally posted by BassAle View Post
      It will be a big whup when Denver, Vegas, Albuquerque, and Tucson run out of water. These places have already changed, many people living there would say for the worse.

      Lowering the global population is the best thing we could do for the planet
      Ask China how that's going for them.
      https://www.npr.org/2018/07/16/62936...-still-lagging
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      • Originally posted by The Rube View Post
        Ask China how that's going for them.
        https://www.npr.org/2018/07/16/62936...-still-lagging
        I said best for the planet, not best for the economy.

        This is exactly the point I’m trying to make. Our economy requires growth.
        Last edited by BassAle; 02-10-2019, 09:06 PM.

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        • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          The waters wars is a whole different problem. If we can't tech our way out of that then everything west of the Mississippi River and south of the Columbia/Snake/Missouri might as well be the Kalahari.

          If it comes to that, without a reversal of climate change the die off from resource wars and simple environmental exhaustion will hold the US pop stagnant no matter how many immigrants come in. Be rich or be dead. Skin color, ethnicity, and birth status will be a non-factor.
          It’s not a whole different problem. We wouldn’t need to tech our way out of it if we weren’t building in the desert. Some of our fastest growing cities are in some of the driest places.


          Water, water, water....There is no shortage of water in the desert but exactly the right amount , a perfect ratio of water to rock, water to sand, insuring that wide free open, generous spacing among plants and animals, homes and towns and cities, which makes the arid West so different from any other part of the nation. There is no lack of water here unless you try to establish a city where no city should be.


          Know how to avoid resource wars? Don’t have a ****ing economic model that relies on constant growth. It doesn’t _have_ to be inevitable

          population growth exacerbates climate change. As does population migration into the U.S. where the average person consumes more resources.
          Last edited by BassAle; 02-10-2019, 09:13 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            NYC proper broke 9M about 1910 and hasn't budged since.
            NYC has been stuck at 9M for 100 years, but surrounding areas have grown significantly in that time. Also consider 9M people now is actually a lot more households.


            I think immigrants contribute a lot to culture and in general make somewhere more interesting. I’d trade all the rednecks for immigrants in a heartbeat.

            I’d just rather that the cancer that is human civilization stop metastasizing
            Last edited by BassAle; 02-10-2019, 09:39 PM.

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            • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

              Humans are a cancer limited only by war, disease, and famine.
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              • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                Looks like Trump is going to be stuck with Shutdown 2: The Walls a Khan.
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                • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  The waters wars is a whole different problem. If we can't tech our way out of that then everything west of the Mississippi River and south of the Columbia/Snake/Missouri might as well be the Kalahari.

                  If it comes to that, without a reversal of climate change the die off from resource wars and simple environmental exhaustion will hold the US pop stagnant no matter how many immigrants come in. Be rich or be dead. Skin color, ethnicity, and birth status will be a non-factor.
                  Water pipeline from Alaska.

                  One of Wally Hickel's ideas.
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                  But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
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                  • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                    Originally posted by BassAle View Post
                    I disagree. It’s largely demand. More and more people are moving into cities because that’s where the jobs are. That’s driving up prices.

                    If they start paying everyobe that works in cities enough to comfortably afford a 1-2 million dollar home/condo then even more people will want to move to those cities.



                    That “nothing” is something. Read some Edward Abby



                    I don’t give a **** about cultural character. Drive around places like Denver, Salt Lake City, Seattle, San Jose, Phoenix

                    It’s a sea of cookie cutter cul de sacs, a depleted water table, and unsustainable growth.

                    I care about shrinking wilderness and the health of the environment. The East Coast is a lost cause. Let’s not ruin the west any more than it is.
                    The water problem is far, far, far more in crappy water control for farmers. They are the true wasters. Don't put it on consumers.

                    BTW, your "anti character" is just NIMBY. That's all.

                    You claim your state has no space, when you are one of the most wide spaced out states in the country, and that does NOT include going vertical. Nobody is moving to your state, so stop worrying about it.

                    One of these days, you should bother to question and look up what people are telling you instead of just vomiting up the same BS arguments. Especially the moron in the white house who claims 42M people will come across the border- that would take about 30-40 years- by then the population natural growth will likely have receded (which it is doing right now) and IF that 42M came in, it would roughly add nothing.

                    Immigrants are moving to farm lands to specifically pick up the work that people have walked away from. That's how it works.

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                    • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                      Originally posted by BassAle View Post
                      Southern Maine is a poster child for sprawl and poor land-use choices (rural towns around Portland requiring 4 acre house lots to prevent “suburbanization).

                      I’m in favor of immigrants moving to Maine and higher density development here. (Both Portland and Lewiston have sizable immigrant communities, relative to their overall size, that are probably responsible for their only real growth over the last decade)

                      I’m still not excited about the inevitable 400M+ US population, most of whom are not going to be living in rural areas that currently have excess housing stock. It’s going to fuel massive new development , pushing further into the wilderness around our western cities.
                      Immigrants are not moving to urban areas as fast as people who already live here. That trend has been going on for over a century. Most people who move to all of the cities you whine about are not immigrants- they are just US citizens looking for work. The immigrants that do move there go to support them.

                      If you don't want people to move from rural to urban places, it's a MUCH bigger problem than immigration is. That's a whole jobs structure problem. If you can convince tech companies to locate their businesses in backwater towns, you would be a genius. And given that nobody has been able to really do that, forgive me for not thinking you can either. But that's not the majority immigration problem.

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                      • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                        Originally posted by alfablue View Post

                        You claim your state has no space, when you are one of the most wide spaced out states in the country, and that does NOT include going vertical. Nobody is moving to your state, so stop worrying about it.
                        I never said that my state has no space. That was Drew so go **** yourself, this isn't even about Maine.

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                        • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                          Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                          BTW, your "anti character" is just NIMBY. That's all.
                          go **** yourself. I'm totally okay with people moving to Maine. I've advocated for higher density developments and zoning amended to allow for taller buildings. I also welcome immigrants and domestic migration because we need them in Maine.

                          Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                          One of these days, you should bother to question and look up what people are telling you instead of just vomiting up the same BS arguments.
                          again, go **** yourself. I'm not anti-immigrant by any stretch. I acknowledge that we need immigrants. What I don't like is an economy that requires constant growth. That's clearly unsustainable.


                          Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                          Immigrants are moving to farm lands to specifically pick up the work that people have walked away from. That's how it works.
                          I don't think you know how it works. Some immigrants move to farm land, most do not. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apos-...162100977.html


                          I don't really care if immigrants move here if our population flattens or comes close to doing so. I do have concerns about unsustainable growth, which our economy is designed to require. What I said is that "I"m not excited about the prospects of a U.S. population that's 400M+". Our current population is roughly 325M. I don't doubt I'll see 400M in my lifetime.

                          Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                          The water problem is far, far, far more in crappy water control for farmers. They are the true wasters. Don't put it on consumers.
                          who are they growing those crops for?

                          desert agriculture is a huge waste of water, but guess what? Its pretty much required given our population and its desire for fresh fruits and greens year round.

                          What about when Phoenix runs out of water? Who's fault will that be? It's idiotic to be encouraging population growth in the desert, but that's were a lot of it will happen over then next 100 years unless we run out of water.
                          Last edited by BassAle; 02-11-2019, 07:09 AM.

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                          • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                            Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                            But that's not the majority immigration problem.
                            I don't think there is an immigration problem. We clearly need immigrants. My company couldn't function with out skilled immigrants.

                            I think there is a fundamental economic problem that not only encourages population growth, but requires it to function. There is clearly a limit. I'd rather we stop before we reach it.
                            Last edited by BassAle; 02-11-2019, 07:11 AM.

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                            • Re: POTUS 45:48: There's Always Barber College

                              Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                              Most people who move to all of the cities you whine about are not immigrants- they are just US citizens looking for work.
                              That is true, and I never said it wasn't.

                              https://www.businessinsider.com/us-c...edium=referral

                              My whole point was that I'm not excited by the prospect of population growth. A growing population, both from natural population growth and immigration, exacerbates many environmental problems.

                              You assumed I was some anti-immigrant Trumptard because I said I wasn't excited by the prospect of a 400M+ population and adding 50M hypothetical latin american immigrants would certainly get us closer to that number.

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                              • Originally posted by BassAle View Post
                                go **** yourself. I'm totally okay with people moving to Maine. I've advocated for higher density developments and zoning amended to allow for taller buildings. I also welcome immigrants and domestic migration because we need them in Maine.



                                again, go **** yourself. I'm not anti-immigrant by any stretch. I acknowledge that we need immigrants. What I don't like is an economy that requires constant growth. That's clearly unsustainable.




                                I don't think you know how it works. Some immigrants move to farm land, most do not. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apos-...162100977.html


                                I don't really care if immigrants move here if our population flattens or comes close to doing so. I do have concerns about unsustainable growth, which our economy is designed to require. What I said is that "I"m not excited about the prospects of a U.S. population that's 400M+". Our current population is roughly 325M. I don't doubt I'll see 400M in my lifetime.



                                who are they growing those crops for?

                                desert agriculture is a huge waste of water, but guess what? Its pretty much required given our population and its desire for fresh fruits and greens year round.

                                What about when Phoenix runs out of water? Who's fault will that be? It's idiotic to be encouraging population growth in the desert, but that's were a lot of it will happen over then next 100 years unless we run out of water.
                                I’d much rather we had young, hard working immigrants move here from Latin America or wherever else versus old rich white people and I’m sure you feel the same way. Alfa completely missed the point.
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